22. How to start a podcast in 2021 if you are a beginner - Reggie Koh

How do you start your podcast in 2021 if you are a beginner? What kind of equipment do you need? And can you make money from your podcast? These are some of the key questions we will be answering in today’s interview with Reggie Koh.

His very first podcast The Financial Coconut first went live in Oct 2019 on his kitchen table. A year later, The Financial Coconut became one of the top podcasts in Singapore and currently the number one financial literacy podcast in Singapore, averaging 25,000 to 30,000 downloads a month.

Fast forward today, Reggie now runs an edutainment podcast production house, creating podcasts for various financial, educational, and entrepreneurial communities.

So if you plan to start your own podcast this year and you want to shorten your learning curve and increase your chance of success in launching your podcast, listen to THIS interview!

And listen in to Reggie's answers to the following questions:

• In October 2019, you went live on your kitchen table. That’s almost two years ago. How did you feel during your first episode?
• I sense there is an interesting story behind the name, The Financial Coconut. Was there? And what was there? And what was the intent of starting this podcast? - 3:26
• So Reggie, why do you start TFC on a podcast platform and not on YouTube or LinkedIn? - 7:20
• Does it take a certain type of personality for a podcast? - 8:35
• Do we need to sound good to have a podcast? - 9:52
• What do you think happened to you that gave you that original perspective on finance? - 11:20
• Today TFC is a top rated podcast. What do you think were some of the contributing factors to TFC's success? - 15:20
• Now knowing what you know about podcasting, if you were to go back again to 2019, what would you have change? - 19:58
• A lot of people listening to us right now are entrepreneurs and content creators. Why should they consider starting their own podcast too? What is a podcast's unique value proposition? - 22:00
• How do we start our own podcast as a beginner? What are the steps involved? - 26:43
• What kind of equipment do you need to get started? - 34:40
• What software should we use? – 38:20
• What are the metrics of success with a podcast? 41:29
• At what stage can we start to consider monetising our podcast? - 46:00
• What’s coming up for you in the podcasting world Reggie? – 52:30
• Lastly, what would you advise those who are looking to start a podcast but are not sure or are sitting on the fence? - 52:25

If you want to keep in touch with Reggie, you can reach him on Instagram @reggiespodcast, or The Financial Coconut @thefinancialcoconut. You can also check out TFC's various podcasts here: https://thefinancialcoconut.com/

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Transcript

Eric Feng (Host):

How do you start your podcast in 2021 if you are a beginner? What kind of equipment would you need? And can you make money from your podcast? These are some of the key questions that we will be answering in today's interview with Reggie Koh.

His very first podcast, The Financial Coconut first went live in October, 2019 on his kitchen table. A year later, The Financial Coconut become one of the top podcasts in Singapore and currently the number one financial literacy podcast in Singapore, averaging 25,000 to 30,000 downloads a month. 

Fast forward today, Reggie now runs an edutainment podcast production house, creating podcasts for various financial, educational and entrepreneurial communities. So if you plan to start your own podcast this year, and you want to shorten your learning curve and increase your chance of success in launching your podcast, this is the interview to listen to. Okay, Reggie.

Reggie (Guest):

[crosstalk 00:01:04] amazing teleprompter.

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:01:05] is impressed with [crosstalk 00:01:08] 

Reggie (Guest):

[inaudible 00:01:08], teleprompter, very good.

Eric Feng (Host):

Thank you. Thank you.

Reggie (Guest):

Because I've recorded tons of B-rolls. So-

Eric Feng (Host):

I think that's my secret, I want to do it in one take.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, B-rolls are so tiring like be-

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh god.

Reggie (Guest):

... oh, my god.

Eric Feng (Host):

Reggie, I just want to say today I feel like I'm super excited. In fact, I'm super chill about today's interview because most of the interviews, we have to prepare our guests, but listen up guys, this guy has done ... he has six podcasts, 150 episodes. I've only done 15 episodes, he's the master here. He's the Yoda of the podcast world in Singapore.

Reggie (Guest):

Thank you. Thank you. 

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:01:42].

Reggie (Guest):

[inaudible 00:01:44] for me. Thanks. 

Eric Feng (Host):

I have a question October, 2019. There's just like less than two years ago, right? 

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, my god.

Eric Feng (Host):

How do you feel about that very first podcast? What was your feeling like back then when you did that very first interview?

Reggie (Guest):

I'm pretty sure like everyone else. You would think doing a podcast is very simple. I was like, "Oh, come on. Just [inaudible 00:02:06]." Right?

Eric Feng (Host):

Just record.

Reggie (Guest):

"Just record and let's just go." So easy. And I actually toyed with the ideas starting July, 2019. That's why these were fancy that every time we birthday, I will try to do something new. So are there weird little things with me. And I started to do it. I recorded 10 of episodes and I killed them all.

Eric Feng (Host):

Why?

Reggie (Guest):

Because I was like, "Oh, this sounds so bad. Why do all these podcasts just make it sound so easy?" And yeah. So I record it and I lamented for another one month or so. And then I was like, "I don't want to do this anymore." But then after a while I was like, "Yeah, you know, you've got nothing to do here. Right?" 

Because I was staying in [inaudible 00:02:50] at that point in time. So I had nothing to do. And I was like, "Okay, if you've got nothing to do, then let's do this again." So finally you pick it up again and record it. And just went ion to October. So that's kind of where it is. But by the time it was out, I already had 10 episodes in the bag.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it.

Reggie (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Because you have already kind of practiced.

Reggie (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Do you also launch that 10 episodes as well?

Reggie (Guest):

No, no, no. That's a quick tip for everybody, right? If you want to launch a podcast, you better record about 10 episodes in a library, so that you're not in a rush.

Eric Feng (Host):

So by the time that you officially launch, you're actually in your 11 episode. But to us, it's actually just the first episode?

Reggie (Guest):

Yes, yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh, that's brilliant. Okay, That's brilliant. Now the Financial Coconut, I sense that there's an interesting story. I wanted to bring a coconut to the studio, but we couldn't find big enough coconuts.

Reggie (Guest):

It's okay. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Wait for us to have merch. 

Reggie (Guest):

Merch, yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Big drop, big drop.

Reggie (Guest):

Someday, someday. Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

So tell us why the name Financial Coconut.

Reggie (Guest):

Everybody ask me this question. The simplest idea is I think finance is a little bit too complicated for a lot of people or at least the financial community make it sound very complicated, like it or not. They want to make it sound fancy and complicated and very chim. So I was like, "Yeah, you know what, let's go for something cute, something more fun." It was actually a poll that I did on my socials between The Wealthy Banana and The Financial Coconut. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my god like-

Reggie (Guest):

So and what's with the fruit. And I was like, "Guys, I just want something like fun, Asiany." And I was like, "Yeah. So definitely Coconut." That's kind of how it is.

Eric Feng (Host):

Now, for those of you who can see us. But we have a very bright, yellow background. You would have been cool if you're called wealthy banana. And then the yellow kind of fit, you know. 

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. 

Eric Feng (Host):

You know what I thought about coconut? I thought that you chose Coconut because in at least in the Asian context, right. When you say a person and you write coconut, it means that a person is stupid. So therefore I thought that you say Financial Coconut, because it's for all of us who are noobs out there, who don't know much about finances and you make it easy for us, that was not the reason.

Reggie (Guest):

And that's the beauty of the name. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Damn.

Reggie (Guest):

Because everybody that asks me about the name has some, sort of interpretation in their own ... I was like, "Oh, okay, so that's how you look at the name? Oh, that's how you look at the name." So everybody just has a different interpretation. 

Eric Feng (Host):

The next podcast, I'm going to call my headless chicken. I'm going to let people tell me why they think I call it headless chicken.

Reggie (Guest):

I know. I know.

Eric Feng (Host):

And I might find a good narrative.

Reggie (Guest):

You know, we did a series for entrepreneur.

Eric Feng (Host):

Entrepreneurship 

Reggie (Guest):

Entrepreneurship show. And we accidentally left the iron at a back. And everybody thought, "Wow, that was like very interesting. And what does it symbolize? Does it mean like you should iron through your life?" And all that shit. So actually it was the very first recording of the day. And we were already rolling, all of us forgot to take away the iron and it just got stuck there throughout and ever since then it became a thing within a company to try to keep quirky things within the set.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love it.

Reggie (Guest):

So then people talk about it and it's just all part of it.

Eric Feng (Host):

So guys tips, all right, don't come up with obvious names. Let your audience make meaning out of your narratives. Now why the topic on personal finance? I mean, you could start a podcast on any topic, but why this topic? And also because you're new to this, right? I mean, two years ago, you're new to podcasts. Why were you so confident of talking about personal finance?

Reggie (Guest):

No, I wasn't confident at all. Like to be honest, I was just very irritated with fake gurus.

Eric Feng (Host):

So you were irritated with fake gurus?

Reggie (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

And that gives you a kind of like a mission?

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. So I was like, "Okay, you guys are just kind of going out there and flouting nonsense and stirring unnecessary fear for people and all that jazz." So I was like, "You know, I had some thoughts, let me just record and put it out there." So by the time when I put out content, Singapore already had quite a community going for personal finance. So that's a leverage for me. I don't need to do the hard work to rally the community.

Eric Feng (Host):

Correct.

Reggie (Guest):

There's already a community, I was just doing content for them. So I started just dumping the content on the different socials, Facebook groups and what have you, and it blew up. I've never worked very hard for following. We've never really done a lot of strategic work until recently we got a little bit more structured. 

So like how to cut the content, do the social wordy share, blah, blah, blah, all those things. It's only very recent for the longest time running. It has always been me just putting out my thoughts, my perspectives, and yeah people buy it.

Eric Feng (Host):

So let's come to perspective in a short while. But I'm curious, like why a podcast? Why not YouTube? Why not LinkedIn?

Reggie (Guest):

You cannot tell me, why not YouTube.

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:07:30] YouTube.

Reggie (Guest):

Three cameras, three lights, two microphone, the whole set. This whole thing.

Eric Feng (Host):

Kind of answers the question.

Reggie (Guest):

All right, it answers the whole thing. I did this whole podcast on my dining table with one microphone. I don't even know why I had this one microphone in my apartment in Malaysia. I was like, "Ooh, there's a microphone here, let's just record." So I didn't even spend a single cent additional to buy any recording equipment. 

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:07:58].

Reggie (Guest):

It was just very simple, that thing attached to my iPhone. And then I just record it. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Beautiful. So is just simple, no flare.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah no flare.

Eric Feng (Host):

And you can get content out just like that?

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. Yeah, it helps that a lot of the streaming platforms are making consumption easy. So, I think all of those, I'm just ridding off of what other people have really done.

Eric Feng (Host):

Very cool. For those of you who are listening, we will definitely go into the technical aspects of the streaming and equipments. But I guess a lot of us are going to be very comforted that all we need is just a hand phone, which all of us have, and a microphone. 

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Simple. Now personality. Does it take a certain type of personality to have a podcast? Like, do you need to be quirky? Do you need to be interesting, eloquent, extrovert?

Reggie (Guest):

So a few things, I don't think you need to be extrovert. I don't think you need to be super quirky, but it does help. If you have a personality, you have the ability to attract your audience. I think that's important. But I would say that if you're doing videos, post work can save you. Okay. So-

Eric Feng (Host):

Wait, post work, what do you mean? 

Reggie (Guest):

I mean like all your animations, your jump cuts, your B-rolls,

Eric Feng (Host):

All the distractions. 

Reggie (Guest):

All the weird little things. You watch every single major YouTube channel. They have all those things, zzz, da-da-da boom-boom-boom, whatever they do.

Eric Feng (Host):

Sound effects.

Reggie (Guest):

Sound effects, cuts, booms, what have you, they all can save the video. You can actually take an extremely raw video cut and make it very interesting. Even though a raw interface, you're like, "What the hell is this?" But when you're doing a podcast, you don't have all that. So you don't have the support of animation or post work. You have to be able to be a good storyteller. So it does help that you don't have uh, eh or um.

Eric Feng (Host):

Post fillers.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, none of those fillers. And you have a general ability to share stories. So I think that helps.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it. So storytelling. And what about sound, do we need to sound good to be on a podcast? Or it really doesn't matter?

Reggie (Guest):

You know for 20-over years nobody has ever told me that I got good voice.

Eric Feng (Host):

Really, no one said that?

Reggie (Guest):

No one ever said that.

Eric Feng (Host):

But I feel that. 

Reggie (Guest):

People anytime you need [inaudible 00:10:04], you need to lose weight.

Eric Feng (Host):

Because I hear you Reggie, on your podcast and you have a very colorful intonation. I can almost see your expression through your sound. Is this something that is trained? Or you're just like that, you're super animated with the way you sound?

Reggie (Guest):

That's the part. When people meet me in real life, they expect me to be as animated. But I'm actually just drinking tea and being very boomer, just kind of sharing with them my thoughts perspective. So I'm not that animated. So when I actually roll and record, it takes up a lot of energy. I'd say it's a very flow activity. There's no distraction. You cannot have any other thing. I'm just recording here. 

I actually set certain days to record. And during recording days, I don't reply emails, you don't ask me to do anything. You don't destruct my flow. So that's kind of how I do it.

Eric Feng (Host):

In that zone.

Reggie (Guest):

In that zone.

Eric Feng (Host):

What about now, are you in a zone or this is the natural Reggie that people get to see in public? 

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, I think so. And you're holding the space. So I don't need to be in the zone. You know what I mean. That's the beauty of being a host, you hold a space for the audience and also for your-

Eric Feng (Host):

For guests.

Reggie (Guest):

... guests. And then your guests just [inaudible 00:11:14]. So I don't need to be concerned about production.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love that. And a guest can just be himself or herself. 

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Let's let's zoom in into your background, right? What do you think was your backstory or things that happened to you that, that gave you that original perspective about finance? Because I look back at myself, I'm also not very happy with the fake gurus out there. I also think that money is important, but I would never want to talk about finance. It's just not part of my backstory or my DNA. Why is it yours?

Reggie (Guest):

It was definitely part of my backstory. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Tell us please?

Reggie (Guest):

I was caught up in quite a financial scam for years. I would say that I'm an accidental scam artist in that sense. It wasn't in me to consciously try to like cheat other people and all that jazz, but I was already caught in the whole cult. So when you're in a whole cult, it was honestly very hard to break off. You can watch a Vox explainer about cults or you can go and read about cults. 

But generally a lot of these financial scams, they do form this cults-like mentality. So I was already stuck in it for a long time. And when I managed to break out, I actually went through a few years of pretty depressing times. So you can say that I'm on a journey to spread the word of like, "What are these people doing?"

Eric Feng (Host):

Nice.

Reggie (Guest):

And all that jazz. So it could be definitely a big part of that. 

Eric Feng (Host):

So you're kind of like from the dark side. You got out, right?

Reggie (Guest):

I wouldn't say I'm from the dark side, in a sense that like, "I did all this. And then I'm coming out to tell you. This is what a shit is going on." It's not like that. I was one of the pawns within the system. And then it was like, "Oh yeah, so this is how this whole shit is real."

Eric Feng (Host):

How do you got that awareness all of a sudden? How do you wake up and go like, "Shit, I'm in some kind of a scam?"

Reggie (Guest):

I joined a teahouse. There was this lady, she had her own tea house and it was this amazing beautiful teahouse house. I was like, "Oh, it's a nice place. You know, you need help?" So she was like, "Yeah, I need help." Don't mind me. So she was like, "Oh yeah, I need help." 

And I was like, "Okay, then let me help you". I just spent a lot of time at the teahouse. Because I spent a lot more time at that teahouse, like maybe five days a week, I had a separation from the environment. That was extremely important.

Because when you're in the cult, they will ask you to meet up very often. Everything, it's about the group, the community, blah, blah, blah. It's honestly very hard to feel like you're in a cult, when you're in a cult. So it's helpful that because of that small little teahouse experience which made me love tea even more.

But because of that, yeah, I eventually break out because I had a different environment. For a long, long, long time, it made me question every single thing that they were telling me.

Eric Feng (Host):

Wow. Fantastic. And is there a place that we can listen to the entire full story of how you got out and and how you realized all the things? Is that part of one of the episodes of TFC, The Financial Coconut?

Reggie (Guest):

I think if you listen to the earlier episodes, like the first 10 to 20 episodes.

Eric Feng (Host):

The legacy episodes.

Reggie (Guest):

Yes, the legacy episodes. We actually call them the legacy episodes.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love the name by the way.

Reggie (Guest):

So if you listen to those episodes, you will be able to hear some of those things. Not in like full force or there's no one episode telling you everything, but it's sprinkled across the early 10, 20 episodes. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it. I understand now that you were once in it and now you got out of it and you want to make sure that none of us get into it.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. I would say so. I wouldn't say I want to make sure that nobody gets into it, but I just want to put out my spin and my perspective. 

Eric Feng (Host):

I get it now.

Reggie (Guest):

And yeah, that's just kind of how it is.

Eric Feng (Host):

You know, it's so true. They say that a lot of times, it's our struggles that kind of define our narrative and our story. And you've been through that, that's why you're able to share it.

So I have a question for you. It's been two years since you launched TFC, The Financial Coconut. And you are one of the top in the topic of financial literacy. Which is pretty impressive, 25K to 30K. You are actually in the top 5 to 3%. So what do you think were some of the contributing factors? I know you allude to it. But maybe right now, you can share it with us. Looking back what contributed to your success in this podcast?

Reggie (Guest):

So definitely trying to speak to your audience, I think that's important. Your audience probably have heard this before. That is to speak to one audience or define your audience. 

So at a point in time, I wasn't very cognizant how I was defining my audience, but all my references were peanuts. Because it's people my age. So all my friends were concerned about the same thing. All the references were them, the jokes were for them. The examples were for them. 

Because when you're trying to explain personal finance stuff, inevitably you need to set up some personas and you've got to set up some examples. So if everything was for them, it just made it a lot easier for these people to come in. So having that audience, I think that helps. You know having a good voice helps, I guess.

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:16:31] do you rate voice?

Reggie (Guest):

My voice is not working with me today.

Eric Feng (Host):

But it's okay, today, you're on a break. You're just having shat with me. How do you define a good voice?

Reggie (Guest):

Someone that can share stories like I said, I think that's important. If the person has a decent personality in their voice, I think that's pretty good. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Wait, decent personality in their voice. What do you mean by that?

Reggie (Guest):

Decent, I'm not saying like moral values. I'm not coming from the moral level. I'm saying like this person can actually articulate and through the conversation that they're putting out, you can kind of feel that experience. So I would say, learn to use your voice to a full emotion. So you have that down experience all the way to that big-

Eric Feng (Host):

So your intonations?

Reggie (Guest):

Yes, yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Your emphasis. One thing I learned from a voice coach before is that we need to feel before we speak. A lot of times we are very detached from the emotions. So it's disconnected. So I got it, be very clear about your audience, have a clear voice, a good sounding voice. What else were some of the other contributing factors for TFC? 

Reggie (Guest):

I actually don't really know what made us big, but I think the community that kind of helped. So having the community around community, around a community.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh god.

Reggie (Guest):

It's like, wow,

Eric Feng (Host):

Today Reggie is definitely on off day.

Reggie (Guest):

Today is not a great day with the voice.

Eric Feng (Host):

No, it's fine.

Reggie (Guest):

But anyway, podcast is highly post. Just want to put it out there. You don't try to just do one take and believe that with this one take raw. It can can be done. So everything is highly post-produced.

Eric Feng (Host):

You know actually one of the reasons why ... We'll reserve that conversation later. Let's talk about why both of us love podcasts. Because I've done different formats, but I love podcasts a lot. We'll talk about that in a short while. 

But you talk about community. What do you mean? That means there were enough people out there who already kind of step out and say they want to learn more about finances. Is that what you're saying?

Reggie (Guest):

I think that's part of it, but also I was extremely engaging with the community. I actually meet up with them. So when I had like people DMing me, I remember one of the earlier followers, they DM me on LinkedIn. I was like, "How the hell do you know who I am?" 

Because my first 10, 20 episodes. You don't know my name. I don't have an email. You know, there's nothing. So apparently they went to Google search to Financial Coconut, and I forgot that I updated my LinkedIn profile to say that I'm a host on this podcast and it makes you find me.

So long story short, it was pretty cute meeting up with some of them. And I made personal connections with them trying to find out what they want, answer their questions. So it's the same idea with building any product, you start with an MVP and then with that, you try to refine the product to your target audience.

So I just asked the community, "What do you want?" And then if you keep answering their questions, they tend to love it and they will share with their friends. And I realized that a lot of them, it becomes an office topic. 

Some of them actually have a few friends in the same office and they all listened to the podcast and they discuss about podcast saying, "You know this week,, you know this thing, da, da, da. What are your thoughts?" And it's quite well. So we have to kind of community expect things, making it palatable and answering people's questions. I think those are just some of the core fundamentals of building a show that people love.

Eric Feng (Host):

Fantastic. Now, if you were to go back two years from ago, right, would you change anything about TFC?

Reggie (Guest):

Would I change anything? No. I'm actually trying very hard to keep TFC intact. In the sense of we're having all these new formats, all these new show structure, all these new people on the team, which are taking on different aspects of production and different aspects of the content. That sometimes I'm like, "Hmm, this is not something that I will say." Or, "This is not something that I will put out." 

But because the team is getting so much bigger, we are really operating on guidelines. So, this is the guideline, this is the target audience. This is what's happening, blah, blah, blah. So a lot of people are putting content on behalf of the brand. Some, I don't even agree with all of them.

Eric Feng (Host):

Wow.

Reggie (Guest):

That is one part of it. I don't agree, that's not mean I disagree, just means I'm like nonchalant about this. I'm [foreign language 00:20:47]. It's just like-

Eric Feng (Host):

Do you need to say that?

Reggie (Guest):

Do you need to say that? This is just what it is. I'm actually trying very hard to keep the OG content where it's just me alone, doing my monologues, talking to the people and just having a great time and being dynamic on it. But monologues are hard to produce. It's very hard to be a solo person filling up content for 15, 20 minutes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah. So true. That's why I have it easier interviewing you. So what do you think if I can sum up the essence of The Financial Coconut, what would you say it is?

Reggie (Guest):

At this point in time, we are a financial media company essentially. So we're focused on pea mates. But we're not blocking other people. You want to listen, come in. So feel free to come in.

Eric Feng (Host):

Feel free to listen.

Reggie (Guest):

[crosstalk 00:21:32] okay, feel free to come in. Just be very aware that millennials are our main target audience and we're just trying to help people maneuver through this whole big, giant of personal finance.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love it. Now we're going to go into the tutorial aspect of today's interview now that we've got a backstory of TFC and yourself. A lot of people listening to us are actually pea mates as well and they're entrepreneurs, personalities, content creators. The number one question they're probably asking right now is, "Why do we need to create a podcast?" What would you have to say today?

Reggie (Guest):

You don't.

Eric Feng (Host):

Drop down.

Reggie (Guest):

Oh, yeah. Done. That's it. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Bye.

Reggie (Guest):

Chow, okay, take care. Have a good day. So I don't think everybody is suited for podcasts and I don't think everybody should produce a podcast, but I would say that it is in early days. So much like any other things in the early days, at least in this region. I mean, it's a really huge in the U.S. So much like any other things in the early days, you may be able to become a dominant player in the space. 

So that is a part that you can capitalize like TikTok. I mean, I have so many friends that just went on TikTok for like half a year. And then they were like, "Whoa," they're like big celebs now. I was like, "What the hell? How do you get like half a million people looking at you dancing?"

But there's some sort of a caliber. It's like ... let me just put it to you this way. You want to be a model, you got to meet social beauty standards. You know, you want to be a blogger, you got to meet society accepted-

Eric Feng (Host):

Writing standards.

Reggie (Guest):

Writing standards. So there are some social aspects to this thing in terms of criteria and level. So if you want to be a podcaster, then you have to abide by some of these things, now like good voice, able to talk, personality and all that stuff, which we talked before. But that being said, you don't need to do a podcast. That's kind of where I stand.

Eric Feng (Host):

So maybe we put it in another way. What do you think is the podcast value proposition?

Reggie (Guest):

Okay, So I think the podcast value proposition, shout out to my advertisers. They're on the fence. They always ask me this thing, "Why should I spend money on the podcast ads? I'll sponsor your podcast." A lot of podcasters say this. But I do think it's a very personal experience. Because you put your earphones in your years. You can watch video on the go and you don't really care about it. 

But when you listen to someone for 30 minutes, an hour every week some of listeners, they listen to all our content that will add up to like what four hours a week. It's very hard not to feel that I can trust these people. Or like, "These people make some sense." Or they fall in love with the voice, they fall in love with the stories.

And sometimes when I meet them, they're like, "Oh my god, I know you," I say, "I don't know you. Tell me about you." Right? Because they get very excited. I just saying shout out to the fans. I love that you're listening and you're very excited to meet me. But when you meet me, please let me know who you are. Because I-

Eric Feng (Host):

That's especially the beauty of podcast. People kind of assume that you already have a relationship with you because they listen to you every week. 

Reggie (Guest):

Yes. So, we're kind of like dating through the audio medium. So that's the beauty. And I do think that in an environment where short form content is thriving, podcasts is one of the last few mediums where people can listen to you for an hour. And like, they just hang around.

Eric Feng (Host):

100%. In fact, that's the reason why I love podcasts. I feel that podcast is the only platform today that people are willing to spend 30 minutes with you. For example, Instagram and Facebook, you have less than one minute, TikTok, 20 seconds. What else? YouTube 3 to 5 minutes, maybe 10 minutes, if you have a good hook.

But the podcast on average people listen to about 20 to 30 minutes of you. That's a lot of attention that you can get and an opportunity to build trust. So I think that's one of the reasons. Second reason why I like podcasts is because you don't have to dress up. 

Reggie (Guest):

Look at how-

Eric Feng (Host):

You look at Reggie. He's covering himself up with his cushion right now.

Reggie (Guest):

I'm like, "Wow, this is set up crazy." Never been in such a beautiful set.

Eric Feng (Host):

Because we're doing for YouTube as well.

Reggie (Guest):

I know.

Eric Feng (Host):

But I would see that podcasts, because we're only using our sound and we don't really have to look the part. So I think there's lower barrier of entry. We just switch on a microphone, we can talk.

Reggie (Guest):

From a equipment standpoint, it's going to be a lot easier for sure. Yes, it's a lower barrier to entry. But from a presentation standpoint, I do think it's a little bit higher. It's a little bit harder than video. I mean, not in a sense. I mean, I've worked with videos, looking at cameras. You got to look at cameras, stare at it as you speak and it's not easy. Teleprompter saved the day. Okay?

Eric Feng (Host):

Yes agree.

Reggie (Guest):

So I get it. It's not easy, but like I said, you can do a lot of post work to save videos, but it's very hard to do post work to save audios. So in that sense, I would say hardware-wise it's cheap, easier to enter. But from a technical standpoint, to be a good presenter, to be good podcaster, the learning curve is pretty serious.

Eric Feng (Host):

It's a little bit steeper. So now that leads to a very nice question. Let's say half of them still decided, you know what, Reggie, we're still on board, we're still on a podcast board. How do they get started as a beginner? What are the steps that you would give them to get started?

Reggie (Guest):

I think I've talked to a lot of podcasters, or a lot of early podcasters, they DME and I reply them. And a lot of people want to do very broad topics. "Oh, I always comment about society. You know, I want to talk about anything under the sun." I was like, "Who cares? Who cares about you?"

For like a better way to put it. The only people that can talk about anything under the sun are your influences. Or your artists, they already have a following. People care about them. So people care about them. They care about everything about them.

Eric Feng (Host):

So true.

Reggie (Guest):

Like what do they eat? What do they think? What do they think about politics? And how do they go date? How do they have sex? It's like you [inaudible 00:27:22] can do this whole sex podcast and everybody listens in. And I was like, "You know, if I do it right. I don't who will care."

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh, you'll be surprised.

Reggie (Guest):

Oh yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

You never know.

Reggie (Guest):

If you guys want to drop me in my DM. But the idea is if you want to be a podcaster, I recommend you to be very, very narrow and specific with your topic. So even if you want to do like an entrepreneur-related podcast, which is quite prevalent already. Maybe you want to focus on, let's say restaurants only. 

There are some use cases in Canada where there are few restaurant-focused podcasts where they only interview the restaurateur, they talk to the suppliers and all that. So they only do that. And they got so big that the parliament actually talked to them to try to find out what is going on within the community.

So I think in Singapore, for all your content creators, all your aspiring podcasters, you should try to go very narrow. So even in entrepreneurship, you should further narrow down. And I think that's the part where you can corner off a whole market. And everybody in the space are people that are really is interested in this particular topic, just waiting for someone to talk about it. So don't try to go too broad. Everybody will tell me like, "Oh, we know, but the market is so small." So I get that. And that's the monetization part, which we were coming later. 

So the market is small, but if you are dominant in the market, you always command some sort of influence. You can do a lot of things. You can upsell certain stuff. You can organize things and all that jazz, which I'm sure you and audience-

Eric Feng (Host):

So rather than being a small fish in a big sea, you're asking us to be a big fish in a small pond?

Reggie (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

So we need to pick that niche topic?

Reggie (Guest):

Yes, yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Now, then we got to the next part, the content format. Yours is monologue, mine's interviews. What are the other formats that I may not know about?

Reggie (Guest):

Generally in podcasts, it's monologues, interviews which are called dialogues and narratives. So narratives are the hardest to produce. A narrative podcast is like building a audio documentary or audio drama series. So if you think about this interview, it's only one interview and then we post it and it becomes one piece of content.

Eric Feng (Host):

That's right.

Reggie (Guest):

In narrative podcast, or like an audio documentary on average, you take about three or four interviews as raw content, and then there's voice over and monologues element. The whole thing then get string together. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my god. I feel like when you go to a museum ... the last museum I went was the World War II museum, where they interviewed the survivors of the Japanese occupation. And there are some effects of the war, the gunshots there is each narrative and then the host.

Reggie (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

But it's just that I can't see them, but I can hear it. Is that what you're talking about?

Reggie (Guest):

Yes, something like that. So, I think the famous guess is Gimlet, right? So Gimlet is a big company in podcasting in the U.S. And they're famous for doing narratives. So-

Eric Feng (Host):

What kind of stories do they do?

Reggie (Guest):

All sorts of stuff. I think they started with documenting their startup journey with the founder actually documenting the whole process, like from idea thing and a discussion with the wife, "No, should I use this name?" All the way to talking to investors and recording the whole process-

Eric Feng (Host):

They reenact the whole thing. 

Reggie (Guest):

No, they didn't reenact. They record the whole thing. And then they post with narratives and all that, to put it together into a series. And it was amazing start-up podcast. So, for all of you that are new to podcasts, now trying to listen to some stuff, a startup podcast by Gimlet.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it, Gimlet. So, that will be a good example of what you've got about narrative, right?

Reggie (Guest):

Yes. And in Singapore, I want to shout out to Saga, okay? AWARE Saga. So, AWARE is a organization for women. AWARE Saga podcast is personally my vote as the best narrative podcast in Singapore. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Beautiful-

Reggie (Guest):

12th episode, go and listen to the Saga. I think it's quite cool.

Eric Feng (Host):

I'm going to listen to that. Now, what about monologue? Of course we're listen to yours. If we were to go for monologue. Okay. So let's put it this way. Monologue versus dialogue, right? The one that you guys are listening to is a dialogue. Monologue is just Reggie talking. Which it's easier to start or who would do better in which format?

Reggie (Guest):

From a production standpoint, monologues are way easier for sure, right? Because it's just you. You can do any time. You can wake up, you can record, you can cut in between, whatever. You want to hunt for guests when you are nobody, it's going to be quite hard. But the truth is I started with monologues. I ran out of things to say, that's how I do dialogues.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh, okay. So, we can always evolve, right?

Reggie (Guest):

Yes. So, I was like, "Oh, nothing to say, really. What is that to say about personal finance, enough." But at that point in time, I mixed up my understanding of it. So then I started interviewing people, but as I started interviewing people, I realized, oh, there are actually other things that I could learn. So then I went to consume more content and learn all these other things.

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:32:14] becomes like a loop.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. So, it becomes a loop. So that's kind of how it started. I would say from a production monologues are easier because it's you alone. But if you really want to talk about the lowest, easiest way to do it, dialogues probably is easier because you don't need to carry the whole-

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:32:31].

Reggie (Guest):

Yes. And you don't need to carry the whole podcast. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, 50%. 

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. You know, actually when I do interviews, my [inaudible 00:32:40] maybe is 20% or 30% at best. I don't do the talking. I'm not to hard up on trying to make it too tight because to me, firstly, everything can be post. And I think when you're talking about like letting people talk, sometimes giving people space does prompt them to talk more, you know? And if you get someone on, you really want to hear from them then why you talk so much. So that's kind of-

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:33:09]. So, here's how I structure it. So if you are someone that has a lot to say about a certain topic, you gotta start your monologue.

Reggie (Guest):

If you're an expert, yes. Monologues are great for you, yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Or you just have original thoughts, possible. But if you're someone that like me, you're naturally curious and you're like a spongy, you love learning. And you actually have a network of people that you have access to that, you want to learn from, dialogues are fantastic. Wednesdays are my favorite days. I can sit back, relax, and just pick your brain and learn from you. So yeah. So I guess that kind of answers the question of content format.

Reggie (Guest):

Yes. I think a lot of my friends, they do benefit from the whole dialogues because it helps them to connect with a lot of people. Actually when doing dialogues, we make a lot of friends doing dialogues. And I don't make friends doing monologues. It's just me. It's just you, you yourself, right? And then there's a whole art around doing monologues, but that's a little more complicated, right?

But dialogues helped me meet a lot of friends, definitely empower the company to where we are today because all our sponsors were guests before all the podcasts, right? So they love it, enjoy the experience. And it's like, "Oh my god, I want to support you guys. I want to sponsor your podcast and all that." So it's a important process of making friends. Dialogue helps.

Eric Feng (Host):

There you go. So if you guys are deciding whether dialogue or monologue, you kind of got answered from today, okay?

Reggie (Guest):

Don't do narratives I'm just saying, it's too complicated too-

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:34:34].

Reggie (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay. Then let's go to the equipments. When you first started, it was just a headphone and a ear piece, right?

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Or a microphone.

Reggie (Guest):

I have a small RODE attachment, like a RODE mic, I don't know. That's why I was like, "Why do I have this RODE mic sitting around in my house." But it's also mobile input kind of thing.

Eric Feng (Host):

Do you still have a picture of it?

Reggie (Guest):

I don't, but it's not difficult to find online. It's just raw headphone input mic, something like-

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:35:04] R-O-U-D-E?

Reggie (Guest):

R-O-D-E.

Eric Feng (Host):

R-O-D-E.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. So it's a famous audio brand. Yes, is that one, that one.. Yes. Is that one? That

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my god. So, we have this on camera. You can show it on-

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. It's this. Of course now this one, a bit more advanced [crosstalk 00:35:17] for iPhone. Back then are a bit old school, used the audio J.

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay.

Reggie (Guest):

Well, yes, but this is exactly ... yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay. So that's the RODE mic, right? 

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, RODE mic.

Eric Feng (Host):

So for all of us who probably are going to just start, would you also recommend it, just a headphone and a RODE mic, it's good enough?

Reggie (Guest):

I would say maybe nowadays not good enough.

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay. So, what would be the basic podcast setup?

Reggie (Guest):

No sponsor, no [crosstalk 00:35:44], no sponsor, but anyway, we're talking to a sponsor anyway. So a lot of people have big fancy for Shure or RODE, some of these bigger names. I think older time it was good enough, right? So 80, 2100 or 2005, I think these two models are cheap and good. $100 for the mic. Comes with a very lousy tripod but good enough for you to start. And it's a USB mic input. 

So you just pull the mic straight into your computer and then you download Audacity free software and start recording. All right? So that is a for monologues. For dialogues, this would be my one part. So dialogues, we need a recorder. So the recorder, we are using Zoom H6, same as you guys.

So the Zoom H6 will set you back about $800, 6 to $800 and then 2 mics. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, we're using Shure.

Reggie (Guest):

You're not Shure good-

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:36:42]. Shure's already sponsored this interview.

Reggie (Guest):

[crosstalk 00:36:47] shout-out to whoever.

Eric Feng (Host):

But okay, it's going to people if you tell them that, "You have to invest $800." Is there a cheaper alternative to a dialogue?

Reggie (Guest):

I think these days what a lot of people would do is online recording.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, just do a Zoom

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, just do a zoom. So you only need $100. Whoever on the other side, they could-

Eric Feng (Host):

It's up to them.

Reggie (Guest):

It's up to them. But you try to make sure they have a good mic. But I think these days, more and more people have a decent setup because-

Eric Feng (Host):

Because they've worked from home.

Reggie (Guest):

Because they've worked from home. So, thank you work-from-home. Everybody has a decent setup. Some of them got fake bookshelves, look very sweet. So, it's all part of it. But yeah, I think that's a great place to start.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love that. So Zoom or any of the online software where you do your conferencing-

Reggie (Guest):

But I would say is definitely very different from physically we're in a space, we are vibing and everything, it's so different from recording online.

Eric Feng (Host):

100%.

Reggie (Guest):

So, so it took me like maybe half a year to come to terms with like, okay, yeah, we should record online because some of our content, maybe not so vibey. Is more like technical. So that got me more comfort with recording online, but for all of you that are thinking of starting just know that it's different now. It's not that simple.

Eric Feng (Host):

Same thing, like 90% of our interviews today are still done offline. I mean, we do have a lot of guests that we would love to interview from overseas. In fact, we just did one with [inaudible 00:38:10], but it's different-

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, is different-

Eric Feng (Host):

... connection, right?

Reggie (Guest):

Yes. There's a lot of discussion about this.

Eric Feng (Host):

Now we've got equipments out of the way. The next question is software, which software would you recommend for them to use or which platform to hose?

Reggie (Guest):

I think when you are in your early days, just use the free stuff like Audacity is good enough. If you really want to all fancy and complex, then Premiere Pro and all those things, they're all like After Effects. All those those big post softwares, edit the sound, Premiere Pro and what have you. But I think when you first start, just use Audacity, cheap. It's free, just use it and-

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:38:57] I see all podcasts have this, "You're listening to, ..." and Reggie also has [crosstalk 00:39:01] some nice background music.

Reggie (Guest):

By the way the Jingle is from bensound.com. Shout out to bensound.com, free sounds.

Eric Feng (Host):

Free sounds, okay.

Reggie (Guest):

There are a lot of free sounds out there. So, Freesound.com, bensounds.com, whatever sound.com. There are a lot [crosstalk 00:39:14]. Yeah, just go there and you get free sounds. So, you want to try to go for the more obscure ones so that you're not like-

Eric Feng (Host):

I hear this somewhere else-

Reggie (Guest):

Okay, I hear this one because when I first used the sound, my first few jingles, I think we were still using jingle. After a while, during the pandemic Channel 8 used the same jingle.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my god, it's [crosstalk 00:39:38].

Reggie (Guest):

[crosstalk 00:39:38] my listeners were like, "Hey, why they use the same song as you?" I was like, "Yeah, because we use Freesounds and Channel 8 also use Freesounds," anyway yeah. So, that's a part. Free software, if you're using Mac, what is that? GarageBand garage. If you're using windows, Audacity. Go for freesound.com, bensound.com.

Host-wise, there are a few host. So, hosting is a bit more complicated. We use Podbean, no sponsor, very irritated, we name drop but nobody sponsor. Buy anyways, we use Podbean because e have a dynamic ads. So, it's a advertising ecosystem that we use so that we can slot ads in and out of the podcast that we don't need to edit the podcast. So, it's a time-stamping. But it's our business to do that. So it's different for a lot of people.

Eric Feng (Host):

We not are monetizing, [crosstalk 00:40:30].

Reggie (Guest):

You don't need to. So, I think the only free platform as of now is Anchor.

Eric Feng (Host):

A-N-C-H-O-R?

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, most people are using Anchor. 

Eric Feng (Host):

I'm using Buzzsprout.

Reggie (Guest):

Buzzsprout, that's also free, right?

Eric Feng (Host):

It's free. If I'm not wrong, it's free.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, I think Buzzsprout is also-

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah. And I like Buzzsprout because you have a lot of data that you can mine, that you will know who are the people listening to you, you're number what on which channel and all that. All that's great.

Reggie (Guest):

I actually think the ranking system is a little bit wonky. Just saying [crosstalk 00:41:00]. Why the ranking system, they kind of make everything sound a lot better than it is because I have some friends who just start their own podcast and all that, which is great, good stuff. But they tell me, they show me their rank, I say, "Huh? Your [inaudible 00:41:15]." Very bad, I'm going to lose friends over this interview with you.

Eric Feng (Host):

But it's okay, we keep doing interviews with a lot of friends. Now, that leads nicely to my followup question, which is, what's a metrics of success when you're doing a podcast at the beginning when you're doing one?

Reggie (Guest):

So, I think people look at download numbers, right? So that's the simplest one, but I do want to look at listen to numbers. So, download numbers are essentially how many people press click and play. So that's kind of how it is. But I do think that in the audio medium, it's not just about downloads. It's about how long people listen through with you. So our listen to, it's amazing. 75% for monologues. So everybody that steps in, about seven of them will listen to the end. For my dialogues, about 50% of them will listen to the end. I'll listen through it very, very high-

Eric Feng (Host):

How do you check that? Is it because Beanpod has-

Reggie (Guest):

No, because Spotify actually has analytics.

Eric Feng (Host):

So, we just say you go to Spotify and we will be able to see.

Reggie (Guest):

Yes, go to this place called Spotify for podcasts. And they have all the analytics there for you. So they have the most sophisticated analytics-

Eric Feng (Host):

What about ... because we are hosting on ... So the good thing about hosting on Buzzsprout is that it allows you to then host on every other platform, which I think is the same for the rest of the hosting platform. 

Reggie (Guest):

Yes. 

Eric Feng (Host):

But does that mean that if let's say I want to know my analytics, I go to Spotify, but I also have to go to Apple to check, or it doesn't matter, Spotify is good enough?

Reggie (Guest):

You can do educated guess, right? If Spotify is where most of the audience come in, about 70% of our audience come in through Spotify.

Eric Feng (Host):

Same, which is ironic.

Reggie (Guest):

Really?

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, I always thought that podcasts, Apple.

Reggie (Guest):

No, but if you think about it, Apple is a closed ecosystem. So there's only 20, 30% of people using Apple.

Eric Feng (Host):

I think I know why because when I first started listening podcast, I was on the Apple podcast. I was listening to that. So I stick to that platform. But so you're saying that calculated guess, whatever that we see on Spotify, we can extrapolate.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, the apple users, not special, right?

Eric Feng (Host):

I don't know-

Reggie (Guest):

I don't know, right? Apple users don't defend yourself. But I'm expecting everybody consume podcasts, whichever platform you're consuming, behavior is probably going to be similar. So just use Spotify's analytics to extrapolate. So what we do is we look at Spotify analytics and we go back to our host platform, which is Podbean or Buzzsprout or what have you. And we just see the kind of percentages of listens coming through from where.

Eric Feng (Host):

Beautiful. 

Reggie (Guest):

So that's good enough. We'll have a good educator guess to present to also our sponsors and all that.rt 

Eric Feng (Host):

At the start, what would be a good number to reach out to? Let's say in our year of doing a podcast, what would be a good download number to look towards?

Reggie (Guest):

I'm sure you know the average is about 140 something.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, exactly. I got the data. y the way, it's 141 downloads every month, that's an average. So are you saying that anything more than 141 every month-

Reggie (Guest):

You should give yourself a pat on the back, okay?

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay, one pat on the back if you're 142.

Reggie (Guest):

So my first take is you got to be very thick skinned and ask all your friends to follow you. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay, assuming you have a lot of friends.

Reggie (Guest):

Assuming you have a lot of friends, no friends, never mind also. Just say you're doing podcast. People will follow you. It's not that difficult. At least in a social setting, they will have no choice, but to follow you. So, somehow they will follow you. So I think follower counts matter because they do get prompt in the discovery process, right? S

So I would say YouTube discovery process is the most optimal. Apple's Spotify, all of them are still working out their own discovery process. Podcast discovery is not great, right? There's not a lot of recommendation. You gotta be on the charts, no nobody really knows about you and all that stuff. So, when you have people that follow you, it helps them to be reminded of you.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it, the certainty of the download will be a lot higher.

Reggie (Guest):

Yes, will be a lot higher. The download numbers, yeah, you average it, it's about that, right? If you can be somewhere, every episode, you can have 100, 200 people downloading-

Eric Feng (Host):

Then you really hit your average.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, and it's quite good really-

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, because you do four episodes, you do one every week times four, right?

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. And that also means you have 100 to 200 people listening to you every week. Actually that's quite wild, you know? Especially when you're not doing comedy content. A lot of YouTubers or TikTokers, it's more fun, more [crosstalk 00:45:35], more comedy, humor. I think a lot of people that can contemplating doing podcast. They want to do the depth content, the thinking content and the kind of thought leadership content. And hey to have 100, 200 people on your platform people listening to you every month-

Eric Feng (Host):

I think that's something.

Reggie (Guest):

It's quite a thing man, you've got a following.

Eric Feng (Host):

Great, thank you. So, that's a good number that we can go for, right?

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Which kind of brings us to the last part of today's interview, which is the monetization. Reggie, you have worked with a lot of sponsors. So, tell us from a sponsor's point of view, what numbers should we give them so that they'll be even open to consider sponsoring our podcast.

Reggie (Guest):

So, I tell my sponsors, you cannot compare me with my Instagram page.

Eric Feng (Host):

Don't look at our social media pages.

Reggie (Guest):

Stop comparing me with other Instagram page or other blog posts because that is the medium that they are familiar with, right? So, there's a track record of sponsoring blog posts or sponsoring Instagram shout-outs and what have you. So, there is a ... in that sense, sponsors are used to that number and they commoditize everything these days to CPM, cost by impression based on whatever acquisition costs.

I'm assuming the listeners understand this. So, when they talk to us, they'll be like, "Huh, your CPM so expensive." Because we are charging quite a premium on per pod. So, I get the part. I just want to let them know that our listeners are maybe more high value, in a sense that they trust us a lot more than just a swipe.

Eric Feng (Host):

So, what you're talking about is for your Instagram, right? But I'm saying that what about sponsoring directly or-

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, exactly the part. Because what I'm saying is, a lot of sponsors, they compare the medium. They commoditize it to be like video, to be-

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh, to Instagram swipe.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, Instagram swipe. They always kind of tell me, "In this other Instagram page, we are not shouting any Instagram page let's say."

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, they didn't [crosstalk 00:47:38]-

Reggie (Guest):

There are only a few Instagram pages, yeah. So, nothing but [inaudible 00:47:40] Instagram pages. But they always compare me with Instagram page. Say, "Oh, [inaudible 00:47:44]." I thought we can pay with them and they give me this. So, like okay I totally get it. The CPM is very low, conversion is very high, very successful, great. But in your marketing mix, right? That's only a part of it.

So, when you come to us, we are developing a new medium for sure and we are definitely not at the numbers that is like that. So, inevitably when sponsors talk to us, this is a endless negotiation that we go through-

Eric Feng (Host):

So, they have to see the value of advertising on a podcast platform rather than an Instagram platform. Because you cannot compare coconuts with apples, right?

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

In a sense. But going back to that question again, how many downloads must we have before we can actually have picked enough skin to go to a sponsor and say, "Hey, would you like to sponsor us?" Without being thrown out of their office. 

Reggie (Guest):

I would say monthly downloads, please be somewhere in the 10, 20000 range. 

Eric Feng (Host):

So the minute you hit 10K, 20K, downloads a month you are kind of ready.

Reggie (Guest):

You can be in the ballpark for discussion. 

Eric Feng (Host):

Can discuss.

Reggie (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Without you telling us your rates, because is confidential. What would be-

Reggie (Guest):

Not very confidential.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh, is it? Oh, you can say it online? Okay.

Reggie (Guest):

You can find it online, right, our [crosstalk 00:48:52]-

Eric Feng (Host):

What would be a good ... what are ways we can monetize?

Reggie (Guest):

I think the pure advertiser strategy is hard. Okay, in a sense of like you got to be really big. So, if you look at us, we're hovering 20, 30,000 a month. And in the podcast charts, we're like top 20 or something or top 30. So, sometimes here and there. So, everyone above us, right? Just kind of look, okay they're only a few of them above. And they themselves are also struggling with advertisers and all that. 

So it's not exactly a easy way to monetize to ads or sponsor content, but I do see some podcast that are monetizing to collaboration. Whether is it hosting other people's events, organizing peripheral kind of stuff. So, if your podcast and you talk about let's say politics. And you want to host a town hall on behalf of a company. And you'll be the best host in the space because you are the biggest podcaster. But you are not big in a sense of comparing to other gossip podcast. They're a lot bigger.

Eric Feng (Host):

Your very niche.

Reggie (Guest):

Your very niche. So, maybe you can monetize through organizing events, you can monetize through providing a service. You can monetize through selling something through the ecosystem. So we've done a few of them. We've done collaboration with other people to be an affiliate. We've also done the whole sponsorship structure which I said was very hard. So I do think if you're early in your podcasting journey try to use that leverage to push something that your community would be interested in or something that you already use.

If you already use [inaudible 00:50:34] or Headspace or whatever you love. Clearly I do love meditation. So if you use some of those apps or shout out to SafeSpace also my friend. So if you use any of those apps and you think your community will like it, then you can always talk to the providers, talk to the companies. And say that, "I can be an affiliate with." Or you can create your own product and sell. I think that is a easier way to monetize rather than the PO content.

Eric Feng (Host):

So it's more of the product placement or affiliate market.

Reggie (Guest):

More affiliate, yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it. So that's the primary level. But I like your second one, secondary method which is that I can reach out to a company and say, "Hey, I can do an interview, a piece of content solely on your company or solely on your products." That will work as well. Then there's creating ... is that called collab?

Reggie (Guest):

I would say that's them paying me to do my job. I don't know if you can consider a collab. If you are a great host, you are rare. Okay, let me just put it to you. Is very hard to find a very good host, especially sector-specific host. There are a lot of host out there to begin with. So, if you know a particular vertical you're going to be a much better host. And if they get [inaudible 00:51:52] to come in, a lot like [inaudible 00:51:54] or whoever to come in.

Eric Feng (Host):

Correct. 

Reggie (Guest):

So they may be big in their space. They're bigger influencers than you. And they're a very good host in whatever they do. But because you are in let's say the Chinese business [crosstalk 00:52:06] or let's say you're in deep tech or something, you will know much more them in the space. So if you can be a good host then helping these companies do creative content is also one way to monetize. 

Eric Feng (Host):

I got it, beautiful. Wow, that's a lot of questions that we got down today. Thank you so much for giving us a basic tutorial. We need to top up water for you. I think final question. What's coming up for you Reggie, in the podcasting world?

Reggie (Guest):

We're always looking for new content, always looking for new hosts. So we've expanded, we have a few hosts now on recurring circuit. I actually dropped my Thursday interview series. So I actually passed one to another host to do my Thursday interview series. 

Eric Feng (Host):

But it's still under the TFC brand?

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, under TFC brand. So, we're growing all these other side podcast. Yeah, essentially we're playing big on this podcast space. But also, I would say that at this point in time, we are a financial media company. So we're no longer just a podcast. So we have our newsletter, we have our Instagram page. We have everything where essentially the advertiser tells us what they want. And I'll be like, "Okay, let's do it." And then we go find a way to do it.

Eric Feng (Host):

Fantastic. So podcast become just one of the communication mediums will help educate.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah. Still my favorite, yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Very cool. So since is your favorite, I like you to do a shout out to everyone listening to us. For those of them who are still sitting on a fence like, "Should I have a podcast? Should I do a podcast?" What would be an advice for them that can give them the confidence to start a podcast?

Reggie (Guest):

I would say a lot of people have a lot of thoughts these days. So, I actually tried writing a book in the past. I'm not great at it, clearly I didn't become famous author, I became famous podcaster, just saying. So I couldn't write well. It wasn't my medium. But that medium was very cathartic for me as process of learning and trying to expound my thoughts. So I can say the same thing for podcast. If you're on the fence thinking, if you want to be a podcaster or you want to do a podcast, just do it in a sense that what's the worst. 

The worst is you get to put out your thoughts, you get to expound your ideas and you learn a little more about yourself also. Whether you become famous, that's a whole different discussion. Of course if you join a network like ours, then it easier, easier for you. Of course, is the same as anywhere else, but the idea here is, do it for yourself. I don't think you need to really do it for others.

Eric Feng (Host):

Beautiful. I love that. Thank you so much Reggie for this amazing interview. Knowing how busy you are and-

Reggie (Guest):

I think you're busier, right?

Eric Feng (Host):

No, no. Both of us. But thank you so much. I think this got to be a signature episode for anyone who wants to learn about podcasts.

Reggie (Guest):

Really?

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah. Because if you go look at least here in Asia, we don't have much content about how to do podcasts in a podcast. We have a lot on YouTube but we don't have a lot on how to do podcast in a podcast episode. So I will say this is probably our first [inaudible 00:55:03] it's a good one. 

Reggie (Guest):

Okay [crosstalk 00:55:04]. Thank you.

Eric Feng (Host):

You see, we're not coordinated.

Reggie (Guest):

Yeah, okay.

Eric Feng (Host):

There you go.

Reggie (Guest):

That's the problem then.

Eric Feng (Host):

There you go. [crosstalk 00:55:13]. 

Reggie (Guest):

You lose your social abilities.

Eric Feng (Host):

Abilities. By the way Reggie, all the best to TFC and everything that you do. Keep shining and keep doing what you do, all right?

Reggie (Guest):

Thank you. You too man, awesome.

Eric Feng (Host):

Thank you. My biggest takeaway from this podcast interview is that there is no such thing as a good or bad social media platform. The question is whether that platform is a good fit to you, to your personality. So in the case of audio podcast, I think it's important that you have an interesting personality. You have a lot that you can say about a particular topic. You have a good sounding voice and you're naturally curious and you want to get to know people better. If that's you, then obviously podcasts will be a fantastic platform to get started to build your personal brand.

And to help you, I've prepared a starter guide for all new podcast beginners. So all you need to do is just share my podcast on your social media platform. Remember to tag me and I will be more than happy to share with you this PDF that will teach you step by step how to start your very own podcast. So go look out for that. Look forward to hear what you have taken away from this interview. I'll see you in the next interview.