9. How to qualify for Top of the Table (TOT) in under three years – Nick Chan

In this episode of #HighlySoughtAfter, I had a chat with a superstar in the insurance business, Nick Chan. Nick’s journey to become a financial advisor unexpectedly arose out of obligation and family responsibility, from previously pursing his dream career of sports reporting.

Nevertheless, Nick quickly climbed the ladder as a financial advisor, becoming the top agent in Hong Kong and being nominated for awards that others take years to achieve. This included Nick achieving seven-and-a-half MDRT’s in his first year! Because of his achievements, he was awarded the Distinguished Young Agent by Life Underwriter Association (LUA).

(To give content, an average agent takes around 1-3 years to achieve an MDRT). 

But what I enjoyed most about my conversation with Nick is hearing how he transformed his mindset as an agent as he found his why, purpose, and dedication to service his clients and differentiate himself from other agents. This podcast shares that rollercoaster journey and also the key insights he has gained that helped him to succeed.

So, if you’re in the business of selling, you have to listen to this episode. This year will be your best year ever because of the strategies and the mindset that he’s going to share with you in this episode.

Also listen out for Nick’s answers to the following questions:

• What were you doing before becoming a financial advisor? – 2:09
• After facing setbacks and resistance from your first 20 prospects, how did you feel when you closed your first client? – 10:42
• What advice do you have for those agents who are hustling right now who are being rejected? – 11:48
• How do you build the relationship with your prospective clients in the first meeting and show that you care about them? – 13:14
• You shared the power of sharing your why with your customers. For the financial agents who are listening, if their why is to make a lot of money, do you think this is something they can share? If so, how should they go about it? – 14:25
• Would you say you were lucky in your first year? And did you achieve success from one customer, or did you play the numbers game by reaching out to lots of people? – 17:57
• Why do you think you felt lost as you entered your second year? Was it a lack of reference points after doing well in first year? 23:21
• How did you feel when you found out you achieved the TOT? - 30:50
• How did your mum feel about your progress and your success? Did she speak to you about it? - 33:15
• You started your insurance career out of family responsibility. Today you’re doing it out of a personal mission. Could you share with us how you started finding joy in this business? – 35:15
• What advice would you give to new agents so they can see what you see, that they’re not just an agent but that it’s a lot more purposeful. How do they achieve that state? – 37:28
• How was 2020 for you with the pandemic? Did you do well? – 42:25
• In the world of insurance, you’re at the ceiling. But in my world, you’re just starting. What’s coming up for you in 2021? – 48:43

If you want to keep in touch with Nick, you can reach him on Instagram @justnickit_

Read these books to become highly sought after in your own industry -> www.pickericsbrain.com

Thank you for listening to this episode of #HighlySoughtAfter! 

If you enjoyed this episode, please help me hit the ‘subscribe’ button if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts or hit the ‘follow’ button if you are listening on Spotify. 
 
I would also love to hear your biggest takeaway from this episode! Here’s how: take a screenshot of you listening to #HighlySoughtAfter and tag me on Instagram. My handle is @ericgoesglobal. This way, I can personally thank you!

Transcript

Nicholas Chan:

I remember the day I closed my last deal, it was the 30th of December and I was driving home, I rolled down the window and I was crying. I was listening to Jay Chou, [Foreign Language 00:00:15] (singing) and then I was like, "I deserve this moment because I worked so hard throughout the whole year." That year, I closed 191 cases.

Eric Feng:

Hi, this is Eric here and you're listening to Hashtag, highly sought after. 

In this episode, we have with us a superstar in the insurance business. Now, just to set a little bit of context; an average agent takes about one to three years to achieve this award called MDRT, which is Million Dollar Round Table, but this young man, at 26 years old, achieved seven and a half MDRTs in one year. That's freaking amazing. In fact, because of his achievements in the insurance business, he was recently awarded the Distinguished Young Agent, given by Life Underwriter Association, LUA. So if you are in the business of selling, you have to listen to this episode, I assure you, you'll be super fired up and I guarantee you, this year is going to be your best year ever because of the strategies and the mindset he's going to share with you in this episode, so let's go.

            So, Nicholas, I want you to know that you are the very first financial advisor we have on our show. How do you feel about that?

Nicholas Chan:

I'm so honored because I know that you have a lot of financial advisors mentee, and it's such a privilege to be on this podcast with you.

Eric Feng:

Oh, well. You don't have to be, I'm sure a lot of people would love to hear your backstory. So the reason why I invite Nicholas, of course there are three reasons. I think number one, he has such an interesting backstory, so if you are new in the insurance business or if you are new in any sales industry, I think Nicholas's story is going to blow you away, it's going to inspire you. I happen to be very privileged to be part of his three year journey and I saw a lot that sets him apart from all the other wannabe's. Everybody wants to be successful, you go on a street, ask, "Do you want to be successful?" Everybody will say yes, but the question is will they be willing to put in the effort, and having worked with Nicholas, coach him, mentor him, he has done a lot of things that were very different from everybody else. So I want to highlight that in today's podcast. 

            So, let's go straight. There [inaudible 00:02:47] so let's get straight to your backstory, Nicholas. What were you doing before becoming a financial advisor?

Nicholas Chan:

Well, it was actually so different from being in the finance world. I graduated from the school of communication and journalism, so after graduating I was doing a sports program in a local TV station, so I'm actually very privileged because I met a really good boss and he gave me a lot of opportunities. So I was a TV host and I got to travel a lot, I'd go to big events like the World Championship and meet a lot of sports superstars, so it was a really good start of my career. At that time, I was thinking that, "Oh, I'm just going to do this forever. I want to do this [crosstalk 00:03:41] the entire of my life." Yeah, it's actually my dream job, being on TV and at the same time being in the field, and actually being a reporter is very exciting, too. You go into a lot of different events and things just happen one time, so either grab it or you lose it, so it was really exciting.

            The switch is because of family. Things happened in Christmas during 2017 in my family, so I was being invited to the finance world by my mom. She was working as an insurance agent for seven years that time, so she actually just finished her lifetime MDRT this year [crosstalk 00:04:29]-

Eric Feng:

Oh, my god. Congratulations, auntie. 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah. But I think it was really interesting because for the past seven years that she was in the industry, she never wanted me and my younger sisters to be in the field with her. She is more like, "Okay, you guys just do whatever you want," and they give us the freedom for doing what we want for our future, but because of family stuff, she had to kind of pass that down so that conversation started to evolve at that time, so it was me or my younger sister who will be going into the industry. Actually, to be honest, it was devastating because that time, my childhood goal was to go to an Olympic and at that time, it was 2018.

            So of course, I didn't know that COVID will be in 2020, so in the back of my mind I was like, "Okay, Tokyo Olympic is just two years away from me," that time, so I was like, "Should I just wait or should I go honor my family responsibility. So it actually took me half a year to think about it because deep down, I really don't want to be an insurance agent and I don't see myself selling people, I don't see myself being in the finance world. But at last, I decided to step up because I feel like, "Okay." It's kind of like the Chinese thing, because I'm the older son and I feel just like when your family needs you, then you have to sacrifice your own dream. And I think being realized that you sacrifice something that is so valuable to you, gives me a drive that if I'm going to an industry that is completely new, there is no going back and I have to make that decision worth, so that's the kind of mindset that I carried when I decided to become an agent.

Eric Feng:

Oh, my god. [crosstalk 00:06:31] So I guess when people look at your success and some might wonder how you were able to break through so early. I guess now we understand why, because you gave up a lot to be in the finance industry, so if you are not going to get back the best out of finance industry, then what's the point of sacrificing, right?

Nicholas Chan:

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. But I think in the beginning, it was really tough, too, because I remember walking in the industry, because people kind of know that, "Oh, your mom's your boss." So you live up a lot of expectations and I remember going into the office and people just refer you as, my mom's name is Berry, so they call you Berry's son instead of your name. So that's how they refer to you, and then to me, deep down in my heart, because I was not ready to go into the industry, so I just felt like I don't even know what I'm doing and I was just trying to meet people and trying to close deals. But I remember the first 20 people that I met, I closed zero deals.

Eric Feng:

Oh, my god. 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, [crosstalk 00:07:43] and then I was crying at home just the second week [crosstalk 00:07:47]. Yeah, I was crying at home, and you know that 20 people were actually the ones that I only told them that I'm doing the switch. But I didn't told everyone, I only told my high school friends and my college best friends, and then they were kind of supportive. They were like, "Okay, Nick, I feel like your personality," and their like, "your skillset can make you less successful in the industry." So I was like, "Okay, you guys should be supportive." 

Eric Feng:

Yes.

Nicholas Chan:

So they were the first batch of people that I ran into them, and then ended up they were like, "I didn't close anything," so I was so sad and I was just crying at home. [crosstalk 00:08:31] I know my mom was like... Yeah, and then I was like, "Okay, how am I going to survive here. I cannot close anything in the first month of being an agent." So ended up, I think I closed two deals in the first month-

Eric Feng:

Lucky people.

Nicholas Chan:

... and I remember that person, I think he didn't expect that he would be my first ever client because we were just dorm mates back in college and we're not really even close. So I'm really thankful for him, too. So just answering the question, I think I was in the mindset of rejecting myself being an agent, so I didn't even post anything on social media. So I didn't post stuff about me becoming an agent on my Instagram or Facebook, anything, but how I get my sales is that I invited people to grab coffee and lunch and dinner with me and whenever I met them, I told them the whole story of why I've become an agent. And I think slowly and slowly, people started to believe that, "Oh, wow. You actually carried a lot of weight [crosstalk 00:09:46] commitment that you want to achieve in this industry," and they started to believe me more and that's how I started to pick up my pace [crosstalk 00:09:55] in the third month of being in the industry.

Eric Feng:

So I guess if there's one thing that I've picked up from you, Nicholas, is that before people buy what you sell, people first buy why you sell what you sell. 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, exactly.

Eric Feng:

[crosstalk 00:10:13] And that mission, however personal it is, actually means something to your customers, they want to know why. Is it for profit or personal need, or that you have a mandate and I guess in your case, it's your responsibility.

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, I think when I first started, because I guess because I was coming from a reporter's background, so I thought facts and I thought product, I thought statistics. I thought these kind of stuff matters to people because that's what we did when we were reporting on a match, we told them statistics of the players and the reports, stuff like that. So I though, "Okay, if I just tell my clients how many percentage of people get cancer and how much they have to spend when they're [crosstalk 00:11:01] in the hospital and stuff like that," and then I'm like, "Being very factual and being rational will help me close deals," but just what you said, I was totally heading the wrong direction in the beginning so I started that, "Okay, I should tell people the why behind I started in the first place."

Eric Feng:

How do you feel when you first close? I mean, everyone of us will always remember our first close, everyone will always remember that first customer, right. So when, eventually, did a customer say yes to you immediately or he say, "I'll get back to you in three days," that dorm mate of yours?

Nicholas Chan:

No, no. He was really straightforward, he was like, "Okay. I love your presentation and I love that you're being very serious about it," and then like, "Let's close the deal." Then I was like, "Wow. It could be that easy," after thumping my head into, [crosstalk 00:11:54] so many different people before closing my first deal. So it was really like mean something to me by having the first deal after a tough beginning, yeah. 

Eric Feng:

Fantastic, and what worked for you? So we are learning from you that number one is telling people about the why, becomes very important. How do you persist? Because a lot of new agents, I do not know if they can survive 20 rejections, can you imagine 20 rejections? What advice do you have for them, for those of them who are currently, right now, in the field, hustling down in the trenches and their friends, people they thought would support them, reject them and say no to them? What do you have to say to them, what advice?

Nicholas Chan:

I think always, first thing is, always remember why you started. I think this is very important and that really keeps me grounded because I wasn't coming into the industry for the awards or for the commission or for the achievement that I never imagined that I'm going to get it. In the first year, I was here just to help my mom so that's why I was always grounded and I want to really know how the whole industry worked. So even I faced rejection, I will always take that as a chance to improve so I'm really thankful for the 20 failed experiments that I had that helped me to really shape my presentation and started to know that actually, what attracts people. [crosstalk 00:13:34] you make connections to people and that slowly made me realize that, "Okay, actually trust and faith and just the bonding is what you're selling, and the relationship is what you're selling and it's not about the product. It's not about how many money that they're getting 50 years later."

Eric Feng:

But how do you build that relationship in the first meeting? How do you show [crosstalk 00:14:00] somebody, "I care about building a relationship with you?"

Nicholas Chan:

I think even up until today, I was still sharing my backstories from the very beginning, from year one. So now people meet me, they already feel like they've TOT Nick already. So I kind of like just ripped that off and I would still tell them, "Okay, I started from a very humble position and that's the reason why I enter the industry." So people get to know me and I think just you being the first one to open up and then it actually helps them to open up, too. That's one of the key elements for fact finding, because you want them to open up and then they tell you about their secrets, their dreams and what they're struggling, and then so you can provide them with the best solutions. [crosstalk 00:14:52] Yeah.

Eric Feng:

Being vulnerable, open yourself up to people, telling them the why. Now, obviously, I'm sure if this was a live audience, they will ask you, "Nicholas, what if my why is because I want to make a lot of money in this business? I want to give my family a good life." Do you think that's something that they can still tell the customers?

Nicholas Chan:

I think so, because no one just want money. Their money must be tied to something that is greater, can be their family, can be their dreams, can be wanted to get approval from someone else, can be showing that they are capable of something. So I think that emotions tied to your clients, and because everyone wants to get better, everyone wants to improve, and everyone wants an agent who is improving, too. So I think by you explaining the why behind you want to earn so much, and it helps people think that you are more authentic, and it helps people to know you in a more personal way. So I think it's not something that is shameful, that you come into the industry, then you want to earn more. Everyone wants money, right? But then just beyond money, then tell them the why behind it [crosstalk 00:16:12]-

Eric Feng:

It's for what, right?

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, I love that. Exactly.

Eric Feng:

That's when you create a connection because everybody wants more money anyway, right. Fantastic, so would you say, because in your first year, what was your achievement? 

Nicholas Chan:

I managed to finish COT in just six months. So it was actually really interesting because I didn't know there was a level called COT and hardly [crosstalk 00:16:38]-

Eric Feng:

Because there are people who are not from the insurance business listening, maybe tell us a little bit about what's COT and why is it so important in your industry? What does it mean?

Nicholas Chan:

Basically in our industry, there's an international recognition called MDRT, so Million Dollars Round Table, so in every country it calculated first your commission, actually your sales figures from the beginning of the year to the end of the year. So since I entered the industry in June, so I only have half a year to achieve, so I finished COT, which is called Court of Table, which is three times of what MDRTs require, and I managed to become the youngest ever achiever in [inaudible 00:17:23] Hong Kong. For me, I was shocked. 

Eric Feng:

I think your mom and everybody was shocked as well, would you say? 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, they were really shocked because no one ever believed that I could finish... I mean, if you asked me in my first month of being an agent, will I ever finish MDRT, I don't believe in it, so let alone COT.

Eric Feng:

Let's do some relativity, right. Usually, on average, how long does it take for a new agent to achieve NDRT?

Nicholas Chan:

I think in Hong Kong, usually the fastest person can finish within a year, and for newbie, if they're very determined, but normally in the first three years, trying to finish their first MDRT. 

Eric Feng:

So just understand the perspective; usually it takes about three years, one to three years, to achieve a MDRT. Our dear friend, Nicholas, not only achieved MDRT, achieved three times of MDRT in half a year, guys. That's why he's such a legendary in Hong Kong right now, and especially when he's doing it in his first year. 

            Now, I'm going to ask a question that people are probably going to ask you; were you lucky in your first year? I mean, I get that you reach out to as many friends as possible, but you also said that you were kind of shy about telling everyone about you being in insurance. So is it because you managed to hit one customer that bought like a big policy from you, or that you really played a numbers game and you really reached out to as many people as possible? What was it?

Nicholas Chan:

I really did reach out to anyone that I can reach out to. 

Eric Feng:

Ah, so something changed, because initially, remember you told me that you only want to talk to 20 people? So how do you start getting so much more courageous about reaching out to everybody and tell everyone that you're in the insurance business?

Nicholas Chan:

Actually, in statistic, I closed 109 cases in my first half a year, so that's six months, and that made finish COT. I actually just looked at the stats earlier this morning, and [crosstalk 00:19:31]-

Eric Feng:

So were you numbers driven, just aim for 109? But yeah, how do you do that 109, were you closing 100% or even if it's 100%, it means you reached to 100 people. Where do you suddenly get the courage to do that? 

Nicholas Chan:

Actually, I think my mindset, at that time, it was like doing experiments, because I failed so many times, so I keep wanting to find people that helped me to sharpen my presentation. So it helps me to grow in a way that, "Okay, this works and this doesn't work." So I remember just going into, because then I was a newbie, so I have to do roadshow, so it's a mandatory thing. I think, even doing roadshow, I was being very outgoing and I wanted to try that, if I can close cold market or strangers on streets. So I guess my mentality was like, "Okay, I'm already in the industry so why don't just give it my all, and why don't just try everything that is possible?" 

            So I think I worked like seven days a week and I tried to maintain my appointment around 20 to 25 per week so I get meet a lot of people. To be honest, my closing ratio was around, I think, 60 to 70%, so I did really meet a lot of people that year. That numbers accumulated and I was actually really blessed by a really dear friend, so he referred his whole family to me in the last month. So it was December that time, so I was actually like half a MDRT short that time, and then because of his referral, and he's actually in a very big family, so he had like 12 siblings.

Eric Feng:

Oh, my god.

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, and he was the youngest one so then all his older brothers and sisters, they really need financial planning and stuff like that, so they're always looking for an agent. And they all trusted me so yeah, I'm just really thankful [crosstalk 00:21:41]-

Eric Feng:

There you go. 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, so I get to finish, and the 28th of December, so it was barely [crosstalk 00:21:48] the last minute, yeah. 

Eric Feng:

Well, there are few takeaways from here. I think one of my takeaways from you is, the more people you meet, the luckier you get. And that I think what is amazing about Nicholas and many other top salespeople is the narrative that they have towards rejection. A lot of times when people get rejected, they take it personally and they go like, "I'm not good enough," but for Nicholas and many other top agents, when they rejected, they see as, "Okay, let's learn from it." So one sees it as failure, the other sees it as feedback, I think that's the difference. So if you want to start succeeding, you need to start seeing failure as feedback and not seeing failure as a determination of your self worth. 

            That's beautiful, Nicholas, so we got through first year, yay. TOT, right? What happened in second year then? 

Nicholas Chan:

I think going into the second year, to be honest I started the year just feeling lost because it ended at such a high note, you suddenly jump from a nobody to a "superstar" at times, so people started to recognize you. And then for me, in the back of my mind, I was like, "Okay, so how am I going to break through in this coming year?" So I was looking for a lot of guidance and looking for a lot of advice, and I was even dumb enough to register part-time Master program, but now studying a Master in Finance because I thought getting more intellectual [crosstalk 00:23:41] will help me getting more sales, which is not true. So for those of you who are thinking that you can study more to get more sales, reconsider it [crosstalk 00:23:52]-

Eric Feng:

Yeah. Oh, that's great advice. You save us money and time. 

            Hey, this is Eric here, just dropping in to check in on you. Are you getting value so far from this interview? Because if you are, I'm very happy for you and I'm really curious to know what are some of the key takeaways. So after the interview, go to social media, screenshot your learnings and tag me so that we can connect. Okay, okay. I'm going to leave you to listen to the rest of the interview, enjoy.

            Nicholas, so you say are lost, right? What do you think is the cause of being lost? Is it because you fought so hard and then all of a sudden you've really achieved something that people usually take 10 years to achieve and you do it six months. All of a sudden, there's no more reference point.

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, I think that's one of the feeling that I had. I think secondly, it's because in our industry, when you're up there, it's just really hard to receive feedback from your seniors and stuff like that because they're suddenly like, "Oh, even me personally haven't done COT before, so I don't know how am going to speak back to you, Nic?" So that's the reason why I'm lost, because back in the days when I was still in TV station, you always had your boss to tell you what your next step is and what your next career path is. But in the world of insurance you're self employed so basically you have to figure it out on your own. So I think that time I was really just lost and at the time, I was just seeking other advice but I couldn't get it. So I'm just thinking that, "Oh, I have to improve but I don't know where to start so I just keep working, working, working," and I remember meeting Eric, yeah so...

Eric Feng:

Oh, so I met you in year two?

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, in year two, exactly. So, because at that time, you came to our MDRT day the year before I enter the company.

Eric Feng:

Got it.

Nicholas Chan:

So some of our coworkers knew him and then one of them know that he went to Hong Kong for a conference, so she was like, "Hey, do you want to meet up with Eric because he is a specialist in social media," and at the time, I already knew I have to start using social media. Did you know before, my IG account was private, so I just thought social media is just a tool that I have to share with my friends and stuff like that, I never thought I can switch my social media account into my selling platform and to do personal branding and stuff like that. So I was like, "Okay." I didn't went into the meeting with a lot of expectations, but I mean, Eric, we had a tea in a hotel-

Eric Feng:

Yeah, InterContinental. [crosstalk 00:27:00] Fast forward, it's all because of you [inaudible 00:27:02].

Nicholas Chan:

Shout out to her, right?

Eric Feng:

Yes. 

Nicholas Chan:

And how she connected us, and then I think that conversation really triggers me to think that, "Okay, I can use my social media to do so much more than I can imagine, that I can bring the influence," and stuff like that. So it was from that time that I started to see in new directions in my journey. I feel like, "Oh, not only I can do stuff offline, but I can actually put my influence to online." So Eric came revisit us and I remember September, so you came during September and then that time you had your new book and you gave us a box, and then you told me to do TOT.

Eric Feng:

But I remember the story. The story was, you said, "Eric, could you write there COT. I want to get back my COT." 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah.

Eric Feng:

And I was telling him, "What? COT? No, you're already a COT, you need to go for TOT," and I told him to achieve TOT in September, you only had three months left, I think. 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, but I think that time, I just finished my COT and if you remember that time, there was a lot of instability in Hong Kong, so there was like social movement and stuff like that. So a lot of people are seeing that, "Okay, it's just really hard to get sales and appointments when, out there, it's so messy and stuff like that. But I think you were the first one that ignited that of, maybe I can be a TOT but in the back of my mind there was a lot of denial, thinking that, "Okay, I would be a TOT one day, but just not just yet."

Eric Feng:

But not just yet. 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah. But then I was like, "Okay, but since you brought it up I might as well just go try." So what I did is, I started to record a journey of going from a COT to TOT on my Instagram. So I started to record every day when I was going to meet clients, when I had appointments, meetings and stuff like that, and I saw that a lot of people started to give me feedback and then I think the more that I'm revealing the actual life of... I have a hashtag called AgentNick so that the life of Agent Nick, and then they kind of [crosstalk 00:29:30]. 

Eric Feng:

(singing)

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah.

Eric Feng:

Mission Impossible. 

Nicholas Chan:

And then they started to know more, that actually what I do on a daily basis and that helped me a lot to attract a lot of leads from social media and actually, I invited them to be on the journey, to finish this Mission Impossible-

Eric Feng:

The theme.

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, exactly. So I feel like everyone's really on board of like, "Okay, Nick, I don't even know what TOT is, but I feel like it's something that is really big and something that is really challenging, but I'm all for seeing people doing like Mission Impossible, so let me know if anything I can help you." I received texts like this. Something like [crosstalk 00:30:14]-

Eric Feng:

Gosh, wow. That's helpful.

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, so I'm like-

Eric Feng:

A bit of context, so obviously back then, I didn't really know Nicholas very well, but when I found out that he was a reporter, he was a journalist and I say that, "Hey, dude. There is a talent that you have that you're not using," and that is, sometimes when it comes to social media, the best way to create content is not to create content, it's to document your life. Because people need to know you and be familiar with you before they can be buying something from you, right. If I don't know you, no matter how brilliant you are, I'll never buy anything from you. So I say, "Why not show people what is it like to be a financial advisor in Hong Kong? What is life like? You become that superstar, that you're going to feature," and that is what he did on social media, he did it on Instagram, right?

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, I did it on Instagram and thanks to that advice, I think it really brings people to see the actual side or the different side of me, working and at the same time studying a part-time Master. So people be like, "Okay, Nick, you have like 48 hours a day, and you're still trying to do more," so yeah, it really helped me to finish my TOT in that year [crosstalk 00:31:34] end of year, yeah.

Eric Feng:

[crosstalk 00:31:36] with you, the way you mention is, "Oh, TOT is nothing," but let me just be crystal clear. [crosstalk 00:31:41] but people sometime take a lifetime to achieve TOT. TOT is three times of COT, six times of MDRT and you did it in your second year.

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah.

Eric Feng:

Supported yourself, how do you feel about that? 

Nicholas Chan:

I remember the day I closed my last deal, it was the 30th of December and I was driving home, I rolled down the window and I was crying. I was listening to Jay Chou, [Foreign Language 00:32:14] and then I was like, "I deserve this moment because I worked so hard throughout the whole year." That year, I closed 191 cases. So it was really like sweat and blood. The hardest thing of finishing this is, you have to be consistent, you have to do it every day, every day, every day, and at that time in my mind I was like, "Wow. How did that year went by?" It was just, I never imagined being there and now I'm here and it just feels so unreal.

Eric Feng:

Well, next time when I see you, Nick, we're going to play that song, [Foreign Language 00:33:00]. Do you still remember [Foreign Language 00:33:02]? The chorus?

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah.

Eric Feng:

Come, sing for us.

Nicholas Chan:

No luck.

Eric Feng:

Come on, just one line. Come on.

Nicholas Chan:

Okay. (singing)

Eric Feng:

Oh, [inaudible 00:33:20]. 

Nicholas Chan:

Next time we'll do karaoke and sing that, right?

Eric Feng:

What does it mean, [Foreign Language 00:33:25]? Why is that song meaningful for you?

Nicholas Chan:

It was just a random song that time, but then it means, it was just keep on challenging the limitations, and I think that's what I have been doing in my career throughout the three years, that when people started to tell me that, "Okay, COT's good enough." And I'm like, "TOT is good enough," and then I just keep believing that maybe I can do a slightly little more, maybe I can still improve, and then maybe I can still do something that is out of people expectations. And I think just having that mindset consistently in my head, thinking that I can still improve and I can still do more, really helps me to be where I am today.

Eric Feng:

Beautiful. And if you remember, everyone, he joined this business because of his mom, because of the mandate, right? How your mom feel about all your progress and success? Did she actually spoke to you?

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, actually we had a conversation, I think two weeks ago, and it was just a random night and we were sitting together, because she actually finished COT last year. So we became the first mother and son who have finished COT and TOT in the same year, and she said I pushed her to become a better agent herself, too, and then like she was really proud of me, not because of my achievement, but because I finally find joy in becoming an agent. I think as a parent, all they want is the child being happy and then there was always a worry in her head that I came into the industry just purely for her, so I wasn't enjoying myself, I wasn't finding my own path or my own destiny in this field. 

            But she observed how I changed, and I did change, like coming in not for myself, but then I started, I know that, "Okay, I can actually become an influence in the industry," and now to where I am. And I think it takes time and it takes a lot of effort and I'm thankful that we are partnering together and she has always been very supportive and every time when I tell her a crazy target, she will first like, "Gosh." But then she's still 100% in the war with me, yeah.

Eric Feng:

She'll like, "Yes, let's do it," right? 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah. 

Eric Feng:

Nicholas, you mentioned something that is really powerful. You started off, obviously, doing it out of responsibility, then something changed and today you're doing it not out of responsibility, but out of a certain personal mission. Could you share with us, how do you start finding joy in this business? Because I mean, not everybody wakes up one day and tell themselves they want to be an insurance agent. So could you help us, like walk us through, how do you begin to find joy in this business and meaning in this business?

Nicholas Chan:

I think I have to give credit to all my clients who have been constantly giving me feedback, telling me that, "Nick, I see a different side of the insurance world because of you and I changed my perspective of how I see an insurance agent because of what you're doing." And I think receiving this feedback has really affirmed that what I've been doing was right, that I am an advisor that is here to educate and then to help them, and then not to sell them products, and I think that now I know that I can change or even in the [inaudible 00:37:35] work, to revolutionize the whole industry. I feel like that I just wanted to more and because I want to change people's perspective, that even though they know that they need financial advice, that they are okay and they're openly willingly to go find an advisor because they can trust that we are professional, and that they can trust that we can really walk life with them in this way.

Eric Feng:

Well, what I'm hearing from you is that you kind of play a bigger game, that for some of us, we probably just played a product game, tried to push products and tried to sell as many products as possible. But I feel like Nicholas have a much bigger purpose, and his purpose is to educate people on the importance of financial planning, the importance of investment and when you set such a big purpose, you start to attract people who want to help you. So to all the new agents out there, what advice would you give them so that they can start seeing what you see, that they are not just an agent, but their job is so much more purposeful? How do they do that, how do they achieve that state?

Nicholas Chan:

I think first off, you have to believe in what you're doing, believe in the product that you are selling and believe that the trainings that your boss teaches you are actually helping people, and there's always that loophole out there that needs you to fill in, and I think in Hong Kong especially, I don't know if that's the same case in Singapore, but in Hong Kong the education system never teaches us about financial planning. They just teach us how to earn money, like if you're a doctor, you go into med school and then they teach you how to earn money with being a doctor. But they never teach you, "Okay, now you earn money and how are you going to spend it and how are you going to plan it well?" 

            So I think, as an agent, we are privileged to be able to help them in this way so yeah, trust yourself that you can provide values. And then, work on what kind of values that you want to put them, so be equipped. Don't be an agent that you just know half of the story, but be an agent that is competent and at the same time, you know what you're trying to say. And I think most importantly, what I'm doing is that, don't try to over complicate your presentation because people come to you for solution, they don't come to you with more questions. So I know that there is a lot of people who wanted to try to be professional so they lash out all the jargon, all the calculations, all the stuff, but actually people come in to you, they just want simple solution that can tackle their problem. These are some of the tips that I would give even my young agents.

Eric Feng:

Fantastic, I want you guys to go rewind this podcast because Nicholas has just dropped so many nuggets of gold. I'll do you guys a favor, I'll kind of summarize it for you before we go to our final questions for today. So I think it all started with Nicholas telling us about the why, that you have to find a why for yourself. It doesn't matter what that why is but you've got to find a why, because when a why is big enough you figure out the what and the how. But what's even more powerful about founding out the why, is to communicate that why you're in this business with your customers because by you being vulnerable and you being open, you are actually encouraging your customers to open to you as well. 

            Personal branding, very, very important, we learned that from Nicholas about social media, about putting yourself out there on social media. And finally, what I've also learned from Nicholas is, you do not just want to love your product but you need to love the power of insurance or you need to love the power of financial planning, that you need to fall in love with what you do, you need to find a purpose behind what you do because when you do, that conviction that you have is what's going to destroy all the objections that people throw at you. And even when you receive rejection, what I learned from Nicholas is, don't see as failure, see it as feedback. 

            Nicholas, am I doing well summarizing everything that you have taught?

Nicholas Chan:

Just one more thing that I want to add.

Eric Feng:

Please tell us.

Nicholas Chan:

And that's be a proud financial advisor. [crosstalk 00:41:57] Yeah, actually you have to be proud of who you are. I know that still, you feel like being a financial advisor is not something that your mom and your dad might want you to become when you're younger, but if you went into the industry, no matter what reason brought you in, just embrace your identity and embrace your privilege to help serve your clients, to help tackle their financial problems.

Eric Feng:

How do we find pride in this business?

Nicholas Chan:

I think, for me right now, is be able to switch people's perspective, or you've been able to break those stereotypes. It's actually good that we have that stereotype so that when you do well, people will be like, "Wow, [crosstalk 00:42:48] I didn't know that insurance agent..." Yeah, exactly, you need the contrast, so just [crosstalk 00:42:54]-

Eric Feng:

I love how optimistic you are, it's like somebody sees it half empty, you see as half full, and wow. So you are saying that we need to look for things that we want to solve, or misconceptions that people have and you want to change it. So in other words, there's no hard and fast rule how to take pride in what we do, but we just got to find something that make us proud. For you, it's being able to destroy misconception, that's what you makes you proud, right?

Nicholas Chan:

Yes, exactly. 

Eric Feng:

Got it. So now, you are in your third year, right? No, you just completed your third year, 2020 was your third year and tell us, how was 2020 for you? It was the pandemic, yeah. Did you do well?

Nicholas Chan:

Luckily I did, and I just want to give a lot of credit to the Epic program that I enrolled. It was actually the program with Eric, too, and of course with a lot bench mates. I have to give shout outs to my bench mates, too. They are amazing.

Eric Feng:

Who are they? Who are your favorite bench mates?

Nicholas Chan:

I think Regina, David and then my buddy is Alistair and Ariz, and the brothers, and then I think just being in a group who are all on board of improving and who are on board of pursuing after excellence, it really helps you to be in a mindset that you always wanted to achieve more. But I think, actually you brought up 2020 was a year of pandemic, and I'm privileged that I'm happy that I'm able to push a lot of things online, so it didn't really affect a lot of my sales. So I think just being able to be in social media and also exercising the personal branding thing, really helps me to attract a lot of audience and followers, and I convey them from followers to actual clients. [crosstalk 00:45:01]

Eric Feng:

Fantastic. Does somebody wonder what's Epic? Epic is actually a mentoring program, we're not here to pitch it but in case you guys wondering, "What's Epic, huh?" So Epic actually stands for Eric's Powerful Inner Circle, and it's a one year mentoring program where we, by invite only, we have insurance agents, realtors, network marketers, coaches, who want to outdo themself, and I was just telling Nicholas that sometimes it's very hard to outdo yourself if people limit you, if people see that you've already done your best, then you can't do as well as them, because we always buy some people's expectations of us. 

            So I told Nicholas, I said, "Join this group because the people over there, they have high expectations of themselves, and when you join a group, you're going to start to see your potential and you realize that TOT is really just the beginning, it's not even the end yet."

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, and you were the one who was having the highest expectation of us.

Eric Feng:

Absolutely, especially with Nicholas, I was telling him, "TOT, [inaudible 00:46:11]." No, I didn't say that. I just felt [crosstalk 00:46:11]-

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, but I guess like [crosstalk 00:46:11]-

Eric Feng:

Great, okay, fine. What's up? What's next? Because life is not about just achieving goals. Goals are there just to keep you moving forward. The real purpose in life is to be the best version of yourself so that you can be light in this world. And I was telling Nicholas that you can be one big sun, not just in Hong Kong, but in the world, so I'm looking forward to see how he shines.

Nicholas Chan:

Thank you. I think one thing that I've been learning, really from you, is that we, in our position, can do so much more than just our work or our job duty, but we can actually bring influence to what we do. And I think social media is a very powerful platform, actually when I'm doing it right now, that I don't really have a lot of followers, but I think I will be the one that had the least followers in your podcast series right now-

Eric Feng:

But who cares?

Nicholas Chan:

... but I think my followers are very engaging in a way [crosstalk 00:47:17]-

Eric Feng:

Yeah, I was always telling all my mentees, it's not about the size of your followers, it's your ability to convert your followers into customers, that's what matters. 

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah. So I think [crosstalk 00:47:30]-

Eric Feng:

So far, are you winning?

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah [crosstalk 00:47:33]-

Eric Feng:

People are reading social media. 

Nicholas Chan:

I think with a lot of tips and just accountability from the program, and I think just I managed to close my first MDRT in the first month of 2021, purely on social media.

Eric Feng:

I sound surprised, I'm not but I'm just thinking about what other people will be thinking, they're like, "What?" People think like one year at least, you think one month. That's the power of social media, that's the power of personal branding.

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah, because of pandemic, people started to pay more attention on social medias. Now people even read news, do online shopping and stuff like that on social media, so I realized that when I'm just being consistent, that's one of the very key points, being consistent and at the same time, trying to sell values instead of selling products on social media. And then also, at the same time, keep exercising your why and keep being authentic. That's how you max out and I think this is what I'm going to continue, in this direction in this coming year.

Eric Feng:

Just want to say, in case I don't say it enough, I'm really proud of you-

Nicholas Chan:

Thank you.

Eric Feng:

... and I think the reason why you stood up and you shine, you're really one of my top students and I think everybody learns the same thing, buy why is it that Nicholas is able to [inaudible 00:48:56]? You've got to use it and to [Foreign Language 00:48:59] to make it so powerful. I think the reason is because of his mindset, that he really sees his profession not as just a money making profession, but a purpose driven profession. I think that's one thing that really stood out for Nicholas. The second thing is that Nicholas is action biased. I noticed that every time I give him assignment, he's always the first one to get it done. He might have doubts, but he always gets it done first. 

            So sometimes you want to be successful, you've got to just do more because when you do more, you learn more and when you learn more, you succeed more. And that was the key to success.

Nicholas Chan:

Yeah. I'm the first one to fail, too, yeah. 

Eric Feng:

Yeah, [crosstalk 00:49:30]-

Nicholas Chan:

I'm [crosstalk 00:49:30] the first one to fail and then I'm the first one to learn. 

Eric Feng:

But you know what? Today we learn failure's just feedback, so it's fantastic. So Nicholas, tell us, you have already achieved, you're already at the ceiling, so to speak. In the world of insurance, you are at the ceiling, but in my world you just started. But what I'm sure people want to know right now is 2021, what's your plans? 

Nicholas Chan:

This year, of course, Eric told me to at least finish a TOT, and that's part of my goal, too. But I think this year, I want to focus more on grooming my team because I know that I cannot do it, if I wanted to change the industry, I cannot just do it with my own hands. So I need people that share the same vision and then that people has the same enthusiasm and want the same, to join me to change the industry together. So I'm excited to have a lot of new teammates on board, and at the same time train them and then get them ready and then to change the industry together. 

Eric Feng:

Oh, my god. Imagine one Nick, such a big impact. Now we have Team Nick, it's going to be adventurous. 

Nicholas Chan:

Excited. 

Eric Feng:

You know what? I just imagined, next time when you [inaudible 00:50:59] your culture, one of the things that we do is, really achieve a big result, you get to drive on a car and play [Foreign Language 00:51:05], all your cars will drive together [Foreign Language 00:51:08]. 

Nicholas Chan:

That will be a scene.

Eric Feng:

That will be so beautiful, Nicholas. So anyway, Nicholas, I just want to thank you on behalf of all the listeners out there. You have given us so much encouragement, very, very tangible takeaways and I'm pretty sure you guys would love to reach out to Nicholas in case you guys have any questions. What will be really, really cool, guys, is to share on social media, preferably on Instagram, your biggest takeaway and then tag Nicholas, tag myself so that we can get connected with you, so that we know exactly what you have learned.

            So, Nicholas, how do we reach you on Instagram?

Nicholas Chan:

My handle justnickit_, so J-U-S-T-N-I-C-K-I-T, underscore.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, oh, and with an underscore, right? Justnickit_. So go reach out to Nick, let him know how he has made a difference in your life through this podcast, tag us on Instagram and let us know how you have benefited, all right? 

            So, guys, this is Nicholas Chan, the best is yet to be. I can't wait to see how he shines and step up [crosstalk 00:52:24].

Nicholas Chan:

Thank you for having me, Eric. 

Eric Feng:

You're so welcome. We'll catch up soon, all right? I'll see you soon.

Nicholas Chan:

See you soon.

Eric Feng:

Thank you so much for listening to the entire interview. I trust that it was valuable to you. Now, it would mean the world to me if you could write me a review, so who knows? Your review may be featured in the very next episode, so what are you waiting for? Go, go write a review now. 

            Hashtag highly sought after.