The #HighlySoughtAfter Talk Show

8. How to create your own luck and become your customers’ number one choice - Daniel Fong

February 09, 2021
The #HighlySoughtAfter Talk Show
8. How to create your own luck and become your customers’ number one choice - Daniel Fong
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode of #HighlySoughtAfter, I had a chat with an arising Malaysian artiste, Daniel Fong. He’s not only a multi-talented singer, but also a dancer, model & certified CrossFit trainer. He’s appeared on many local dramas, like ntv7’s Wishlist Raya, as well as participating in variety shows like Astro’s Call Me Handsome. 

But what I enjoyed most about my conversation with Daniel is his hustle, passion & determination to never take no for an answer. From humble beginnings as an insurance agent, this mindset led him to paving his own path in his acting career, which he soon pivoted into other sectors and paid big dividends in other areas of his life.

Pay special attention to 17:15 when Daniel revealed how we can cultivate & calibrate the spirit of never taking no for an answer, and how this can allow us to create our own luck and pave our own unique career path. He specifically highlighted an example of how he paved his own path for success in China so look out for that!

Also listen out for Daniel’s answers to the following questions:

  • Tell us a bit about your backstory? - 0:15
  • How did you make a detour into entertainment from insurance sales? - 1:17
  • What were some of the key milestones of your career and some of the lessons you learned from it? - 4:06
  • Was saying yes one of the best decisions you made? - 8:34
  • How can the rest of us listening have the spirit of never taking no for an answer? - 17:15
  • How did you feel at that moment when somebody said that you were last place in the competition? And how did this contrast to when you and the group reached the top? - 21:14
  • Aren’t you afraid that you’ll be fireworks and that someone else will come along. How do you stay relevant in a world that is so up and down? - 25:10
  • Was it difficult to pivot from the Chinese market to the Malaysian market? - 26:56
  • How has social media been a big part of your career branding? - 30:39
  • In the training & sales world, when you’re in demand you become more in demand. Is that the same in the entertainment world? - 31:57
  • What were some of the lessons you learned while building your brand on social media & do you have the same issues of comparison that others face too? - 33:57
  • What are some words of encouragement for insurance agents and service professionals who are building their brand and looking for customers? - 36:18

If you want to keep in touch with Daniel, you can reach him on Instagram @danielfongwc.

Read these books to become highly sought after in your own industry -> www.pickericsbrain.com

Thank you for listening to this episode of #HighlySoughtAfter! 

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Daniel Fong:

The social media world is a magical place, but it can be very toxic as well, because you are comparing with people from the same field, even your peers, the same age or even younger than you, they're doing so well. You'll be like, "What am I doing? Why aren't I doing that well?" How are you going to compare one another? Some people earn a lot at a young age, some of them get a lot, but maybe your time will be at the end, maybe later. 

            So, the moment you stop comparing all the time, that's when you can actually use more of your energy to actually focus on what you're doing and what you're good at. 

Eric Feng:

Hi, this is Eric here, and you're listening to #HighlySoughtAfter. 

            Welcome to yet another episode of #HighlySoughtAfter, and in this episode, we have with us a rising star from Malaysia. In the last four years, he has appeared in 40 to 50 commercials in Malaysia, Korea, and China. He has appeared in 15 web, television and drama, including the high-profile reality show by Astro, Call Me Handsome. He was also a top-15 finalist for the Super Idol 4 in Shanghai, a Chinese boy band theme competition. And, you know what's the best? He was doing all that while he has a full-time job. 

            Now, what is exactly this young man's secret to being in such demand in a highly competitive entertainment? Well, I kind of know his big story, you're about to be very, very surprised. Daniel, you sing, you dance, you model, you train people in fitness. How do you end up doing so many things and to do it so well that today you are so in demand? Tell us, what's your backstory, man? 

Daniel Fong:

I mean, it's pretty cool now that I think about it, but I wasn't always like that. I was actually studying economics back in uni, and I actually graduated not long ago, it's around four years back. After graduating, I was working at a corporate insurance company for a year, management training. 

Eric Feng:

Did you just say corporate insurance? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, corporate insurance management training. 

Eric Feng:

You do know, right, we have a lot of listeners from the insurance and finance business, so wow, we have one of you. Yay! So, you're in corporate insurance, what are you doing after that? 

Daniel Fong:

I never thought that I would be in this line of work. I always wanted to go the old-fashioned way, climbing the corporate ladder. After I came out, I was doing insurance sales, and I went to an agency, it was insurance sales and stuff. It's a normal thing, I suppose. 

Eric Feng:

I do know of a lot of people doing very well in that path, right, but how do you start making a detour into entertainment? I'm very curious. 

Daniel Fong:

Okay so, if I've got to tell that story, it has to bring back to when I was studying in college. When I was studying A-levels in college, because A-levels we study a lot, we don't really get a lot of me time and go out with friends. One day, a friend of mine was saying, "Hey bro, do you want be on TV9?". I was like, "Yeah?". You know, you always liked the idea of being on TV. You liked the idea of being a celebrity, a superstar. 

            So, I was like, "Yeah, haha, we're going to do." He's like, "Let's go for modeling castings." I was like, "Modeling castings? You mean like commercials?" 

            "Yeah, commercials." So, we were looking at a newspaper. We found a few, just so happened some advertisement came out like, "Hey, we're having this new commercial agency," if you are this, this, this, this, this age, this height, whatever, come and try out. I'm like, "Okay, let's go." Went there, tried out. The casting, we waited around for like five hours there, because they were flooded with people, but we went into casting, it took around only like five minutes, and the guy was like, "Okay, we'll call you back when there's a job." 

            My first job was after like half a year after I went for the casting. I had forgotten about it. They texted me like, "Hey, we have this job for you, you are confirmed." Yeah, that is actually for OldTown White Coffee, so it's actually for the shops of OldTown White Coffee. I was the main character and stuff, so they were like, "Are you free this day, this amount of pay?". At a time when you're studying, look at an amount of money, you'd be like, "Oh shit, that's a lot of money." I went for that, and after going through that, I actually got a lot of other commercials. 

Eric Feng:

Because they see you on television, right, and that's how you get referrals? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, they see you on television, and the modeling agencies are always looking for new faces to come up. It all started for me saying yes to my friend like, "Hey bro, do you want to go for casting?". I could have said, "Yeah, no man, I want to study hard for my A-levels. I want to ace the exam." But, I said yes to that, so it got me from that job, and that two years, I got in more than 20 commercials. 

Eric Feng:

Amazing. You know Daniel, what you just said with me reminds me of a movie called I Bought A Zoo. The key message behind the movie was sometimes in life, all we need is just 20 seconds of insane courage, 20 seconds of just saying yes to an opportunity that scares you, and you watch how your life unfolds. You did exactly that. Whoever's listening to this interview right now with Daniel Fong from Malaysia, I highly recommend you go out there, say yes to something, and you might be surprised about how life rewards you with your courage. 

            So Daniel, walk us through... From what I understand, you were doing this part-time, while you're still in insurance, you were doing this for three years, part-time. You were acting, singing, doing commercials, and it was only recently, in 2019, where you do it full-time. Tell us, what were some of the key milestones of your career, and what are some of the lessons that you learned from it? Start way at the beginning, what would be one big one for you? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, I think the really, really good one was when I came back from Melbourne. I just graduated with my economics degree in Monash. I was already management training, because we got our startup pay, it's really miserable how fresh grads get their pay. It's really insane, miserable. I was thinking, since I'm back in Malaysia, why don't I start doing some commercials, maybe take a day off, sometimes it happens on the weekends. You're getting a lot of money, even up to a month's salary just from one gig. 

            So, I started going back to commercials. I went for than 10 commercials. There was particularly one commercial, I didn't get the job, but I actually met someone there. I actually met a manager, an agent from China. I was noticing this guy, he was looking at me. He didn't want to talk to me, but then, after his talent came out, he actually came up to talk to me, and he's like, "Hey, I think you look really good, and I think I can get more jobs for you in China, here's my name." Out of nowhere, you know? 

            So, I was like, "Okay." At the time, I wasn't even thinking China is a market for acting and stuff, because at the time, it wasn't that big as it is now. I didn't even know about it. It's like, "China, okay, okay." Three days later, I decided to give him a text, I was like, "Okay, what's there to lose?". So, I texted him, he'd be like, "Oh hi, my name is blah blah blah, and I'm from here," he introduced himself. So, he was like, "Do you have a profile or something?". At the time, my profile is photos of me taken by a friend on Instagram, so I just put a picture on a white piece of paper, just my picture and my vital stats and stuff. He looked at the profile, he'd be like, "Oh, um, okay." Then he'd be like, "I'll let you know if there's a job." 

            I flew back to Melbourne to graduate. He texted me when I was in some of the last days in Melbourne, he was like, "Hey, I got this job, it's the day after, one of my talent couldn't make it, and I think you suit this particular role the best. I want someone from Malaysia, and I don't know a lot of people from Malaysia." I'd be like, "Okay, when is it?". He's like, "It's the day after, you have to fly to Beijing." I'd be like, "Oh, that's very rushed." I was in Melbourne, I don't think I can make it. I was like, "Can you postpone?". He was like, "No, it's Tong Ren Tang, one of the biggest Chinese medicine brands in the world." I'd be like, "Okay." I don't even know what the brand is, I'd be like, "Okay, cool, let me try and see to make it happen." 

            He told me, "You need to have your Chinese Visa," and all this kind of stuff. So, I was like, "How am I going to do it within a day?". I was asking my parents, asking my friends, they were like, "Oh, you can hire a runner and do it for you." I actually texted a runner when I was in Melbourne, I was like, "Please meet me at the airport at this time." I reached the airport at that time, he was there waiting for me, I gave him my passport and the photo I've taken in Melbourne. Then, he sent it to get the Visa done, and the night itself, he gave it back, and the next day, I flew to Beijing. It's pretty crazy. 

            So, went there, did the commercials and stuff, and my profile is-

Eric Feng:

The commercial was legit, you actually trusted him. 

Daniel Fong:

I just trusted him. 

Eric Feng:

Fly all the way to China? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, it was pretty scary, I actually trusted him. I was like, "Uh, okay," why not? I saw his website. I saw his stuff. He seems pretty legit. I went there, even the day itself, the night itself, when I reached there, I was thinking in all these places, "Is this a scam? Am I getting scammed?". Then, the next day, he brought me to Tong Ren Tang, we had a shoot there, and I met all the bosses and stuff. At that moment in time, I'm like, "Okay, it's legit." 

            Because I was young, I had nothing to lose, so I feel like, what's the worst I can do? I'm a guy as well, so I'm not a girl and that kind of stuff. I feel like there's nothing to lose. That's how I went for it. 

Eric Feng:

And was it one of the best decisions ever, saying yes to get you?

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, it's one of the best decisions ever, because why? Because, once I did this commercial, it was a highly-budgeted commercial. It's all around the railway station in Beijing, and it was in a few commercials agencies and also some talent agencies, my profile was there. Astro, Malaysia Astro, actually went to China, Beijing, to actually sought out for talents from China to actually participate in the new show at the time, it's Call Me Handsome. It's one of their strongest IP until today. They are searching for talents for the first season, and they saw my profile and they realized I'm Malaysian and they wanted me more. 

            I was back in Malaysia, early, and then they contacted me. I went for the Call Me Handsome show, and it actually boosted up my social media a lot. That was a great decision, and after that, from this Call Me Handsome show, I was introduced to go for a web Chinese drama, the first web Chinese drama. The first web Chinese drama actually boomed, so everything just went up, at the time, all because I said yes. All because I said yes with that one guy. I said yes to him. Until today, my career, the base of my acting and singing career is actually from this. This is the base. 

Eric Feng:

I love that. That's so beautiful. To the rest of you guys always hoping that you get your big break. Your big break comes from saying yes to all the small breaks, of just saying yes to everything, because you never know how it's going to connect. I think Steve Jobs mentioned that, right, sometimes you've got to just do it. Only when you look back, once you see how the dots connect. I think this is so inspiring, Daniel. 

            This is just one milestone, give us a second one. We love this, we love your stories. Tell us a second one. 

Daniel Fong:

All right, yeah. That was the acting milestone. From there, I have a lot of acting jobs because of this milestone. The second one is 2018. I decided to be like, beside acting, why don't I try singing. I always loved singing. I started singing, because I was trying to go for some girls and stuff. I was like, okay, typical. I had a friend, he decided, "Hey, I think you need a manager. Jobs are coming in, you might not be able to handle it." I'd be like, "Yeah, cool, you can be my manager." 

            So, he's like, "Hey bro, have you ever tried to singing?". I'd be like, "I have not tried singing." He's like, "Let's do some covers." Then I started doing some covers using my own money. I did around four or five covers. He'd be like, "Hey, let's do some [basking 00:12:42] shows to test out whether you are courageous in the public." We went to malls. I actually remember which mall it was, it was Mitsui in the Sepang Mall. 

            Of course, we have connections with the event management, so we actually know that they are hiring this Malaysian artist to come to do a meet-and-greet session. There's going to be a lot of Malay fans there. We are telling the owner, they're Japanese, we are like, "Hey, why don't I perform for free?". Free! Free stuff! They'd be like, "Who are you? Why are you going to perform?". So, I show them my artist profile, which I have gathered throughout the last past year. It was beautifully done already. I was like, "It's me, this counts as an example, you have nothing to lose. I'm an artist as well. You have nothing to lose, and I'm performing for you for free." 

            I showed them some of my covers which I did, "Oh, that's pretty good." They were like, "Yeah, perform for free." I would be like, "Okay, yeah, for free, sure." I went and performed and after I performed, I realized I can actually do it in public. I know how to interact with the fans. You don't even know who's going to turn up, because there's no announcer, there's no hosting like, "All right, let's welcome Daniel Fong." There's not such thing. It's just me taking the mic, going there, like music, start singing in the public, that kind of stuff. 

Eric Feng:

Were you nervous? Because, all these fans were here not for you, they were here for someone else. 

Daniel Fong:

They were here for someone else. Then, after me singing the two songs, they actually came to me, taking photos and stuff. I'd be like, "Okay, it's working, it's working." I actually had some friends who'd come over, just in case nobody lie on me, nobody want to-

Eric Feng:

Wait, what's lie on, what's lie on? 

Daniel Fong:

Basically, I was telling them, I asked my friend just in case no one wants to interact with me, no one wants to watch me sing, at least you guys are there, at least there's some people there. 

Eric Feng:

Someone would cheer for you and clap for you, right? 

Daniel Fong:

They would cheer for me and stuff. At the end, everybody was cheering. After that, because of the Astro show that was linked to, they sold the show to China. The web show, they show it to China. China people saw that show, this company saw that show. They are also hosting one of the big production competition, a boy band competition called Super Idol 4. They actually asked me to audition for it. It started from there, there's a part in there, so basically, I started singing, and they just so happened to ask me to audition for it. 

            I have to show them clips of me dancing, rapping and singing. I'd be like, "I just started singing not long ago, now I have to rap and dance." I'd be like, "Okay." What I did was I hired a dancing coach to show me some moves for maybe around three weeks, then I recorded a casting video for them. I chose a Chinese song that has rap and normal melodies in it. I send that over, and then I was telling my friend, I said like, "If I got chosen, I need to be comfortable to perform in front of 10,000 to 20,000 people." He's like, "I know this platform called Famine 30. I was like, "Famine 30, isn't that the biggest charity show in Malaysia? It has 10 to 15,000 people." I'd be like, "Yeah, let's ask them." 

            Send in my profile, we ask them, we pull some strings. They'll be like, "Oh, sorry, we have artists performing, but you need to be a recording artist, you got to have your own song, you got to have your own album." I was like, "I don't have my own song, I've only been singing covers, and my covers don't even have a lot of views." The most views I got was only like 10 to 100,000. Some people have millions of views. 

            I was telling them, we set our meeting and stuff, I was like, "Hey, why don't I do something different for your show. Your show starts at 9:30, right? Why don't I perform at a 9:00 AM session, instead of 9:30, because it gets started at 9:30. I will hire dancers, I'll pay for my own dancers. I will do the music for this particular song. This will be what you get." They'll be like, "Oh, that's really interesting." I say, "You have nothing to lose, honestly. You've just got to be slightly earlier, and people are still coming in, so it's just entertainment for them and it's free. I'm doing it for free, and I'm actually hiring people to perform for you guys." 

Eric Feng:

What did they say? 

Daniel Fong:

They said, "All right, let's do it." I'll be like, "Okay, wow." So, I hired the dancers. We practiced for months, singing a song and everything. We performed for Famine 30 in front of 10,000 people. Even though the people there are very tired and hungry, because they've been starving themselves for 30 hours, and so it's Famine 30, but it's okay. You perform this song. You see people interacting with you as well. It's not as scary as I thought it would be. 

Eric Feng:

What is the lesson that you learned from this, if you look back? 

Daniel Fong:

If I look back, I could always tell those people, "You need to be a recording artist." 

            "All right, thank you, I'll get my single first, then I'll come back." That's going to take a long time. That's going to take six to eight months. I was telling them... I think, in their shoes, in their perspective, what do they actually want from this? They actually want to entertain the crowd, because they've been starving themselves for 30 hours. I gave them a different entertainment, something different. People always go there and just sing songs and just very peaceful, "La, la, la," and singing through the MMOs, which are just like the background music. I said, "I will have live dancers, and we will do a professional show." I did a lot of different stuff. They bought the idea. I guess, one thing I learned about this is never give up, even though when someone says no. 

Eric Feng:

Exactly. If you guys have been listening all the way to this moment, right, this young chap, Daniel Fong, is not just a good-looking guy, but he has the hustle spirit in him. This is what I'm getting at, you never back down from a "No." You go for "Yes" and "No" is just "Not yet," or you figure out a way to get something. How can the rest of us listening to you have that kind of spirit? That kind of hunger? That drive? 

Daniel Fong:

A lot of my friends, I studied economics, a lot of them are entrepreneurs. Some of them own businesses, right now, as well. Sometimes I would always say yes to something, even though when I'm not ready inside. I think it's very similar to those who are actually selling products. You will say yes to your client first before even having your own product. It's sort of something like that. You're not even sure that you are ready for it, but you just say yes. If they agree to it, you set time to actually prep for it, to actually be as great as possible. 

Eric Feng:

Grab the opportunity first, then go do whatever it takes to be able to fulfill that opportunity. 

Daniel Fong:

Exactly, exactly, because you never know when you're ready. You don't have a question to say yes to. You don't have people asking you things, "Do you want to do it," and then you say yes to. You will never be ready, honestly, especially this line of entertainment, you'll never be ready. 

Eric Feng:

Please say that again, you will never be? 

Daniel Fong:

You will never be ready. 

Eric Feng:

Exactly, Daniel, you think about it, if you didn't put yourself out there to practice dancing in front of 10,000 people, you would not had been ready for the Super Idol 4, would you say that? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah. Exactly. After this performance, I actually got into the top 50 for Super Idol 4. I actually have to go to Shanghai for three months for intense training in dancing, singing and rapping. Then we have to perform, we have these elimination rounds and stuff. That's my third milestone, literally Super Idol 4. I went to Shanghai back in 2018. We were practicing, you see a lot of new faces, young people. I was 25 years old. I'd be like, "Some of them are 18 years old, 21 years old, they're so young, and all of them are good-looking." Looks mean nothing there, literally. 

            You see some of them, because we are auditioning in the public. Top 50, we still have to audition in front of the judges. The judges are international superstars like Gary Cao, one of our judges is Gary Cao, and there's one from Taiwan who's called [Yuan Wei-jen 00:21:02]. This kind of was like really A-list celebrities and stuff. We see everybody's talent on the spot, some people would be like, "Oh shit, that guy's talented, oh wow, this guy's talented." So, where do you stand? 

Eric Feng:

Yeah, you feel inadequate? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, you feel intimidated and stuff. But, once we go through that judging round, we are separated into groups, like the good group and the bad group. I was in the bad group. 

Eric Feng:

Oh, no. 

Daniel Fong:

I was in the bad group like, "Okay, okay, all right, we're in the bad group." Okay, I was in the bad group-

Eric Feng:

Hey this is Eric here, just dropping in to check in on you. Are you getting value so far from this interview? Because if you are, I'm very happy for you, and I'm really curious to know what are some of the key takeaways. So, after the interview, go to social media, screenshot your learnings and tag me, all right, so that we can connect. Okay, okay, I'm going to leave you to listen to the rest of the interview, enjoy. 

            Were you affected when you felt like, "Oh my god, people already label me as the bad group."? 

Daniel Fong:

No, I think it's cool. I think it's actually better. You're the underdog group. 

Eric Feng:

Oh my god, the way you see things is so different from how people see it. Guys, remember this, when someone says you're bad, tell yourself, underdog. 

Daniel Fong:

Underdog, man, seriously. It actually happened. We were given tasks, we were given three songs throughout the three months, so we have to practice each song. We were separated into groups after that, five people, each group, six people each group. We have to perform as a boy band, so we have to learn dancing, we have to learn singing a song, memorizing the lyrics, singing them properly. We have coaches from Korea, and they are really, really strict. They throw chairs at you and stuff, really crazy, man, but they're really, really good as well. 

            So, during the first performance, they actually label us. This is really top 30, so I managed to go into the top 30. They will actually announce the placing from 30 until number one, and guess who got the last place, 30? Me! I got freaking 30th. Top 30 to last place, they see my Chinese name, [Weng Chuan 00:23:06]. I'm the last. Everyone's looking, everyone's in shock. They were like, "Why? Why is he in last place?". 

Eric Feng:

How do you feel, that moment when someone said that you were last? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, it was pretty surreal. You feel a bit sad, because you put in that much effort, but at the same time, you feel like there's nothing you can do about it. You can only do better the next round. 

Eric Feng:

That's very true. 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, so we were separated into groups again. This time, I was in the rap division. I don't know how to rap, so I was in the freaking rap division, because in last, I can't even choose. I was thrown in there. We have five people, and nobody looked up to our group. They'll be like, "This group is all not so good," outcasts and stuff. We practiced really, really hard for less than a week. Then, our group, for a second song, we actually got number one. 

Eric Feng:

Beautiful comeback. 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, we came back, we got number one. Everybody was really into our performance. We don't care about getting last or anything, we just concentrate on our performance. 

Eric Feng:

Yeah. How do you feel? Let's think about that moment. Initially, when you got 30, you feel sad, but you tell yourself, "I'm going to give it a try." Then, when you realized that you were at the top, how do you feel, you and the group? 

Daniel Fong:

You feel great, man, you feel like, "Wow." I guess that failure and failing is two different things. When you fail for one time, it is not equal to failure. It only equals to failure if you stop trying, I suppose. Yeah. 

Eric Feng:

Daniel, that is so beautiful. Could you do us a favor and say it one more time so that people can take notes? What did you just say again? 

Daniel Fong:

Failure and failing is different. If you fail and you stop trying, that's failure, but if you fail and you continue trying, that's not failure. That's you learning from your mistakes and doing better the next time. 

Eric Feng:

B-E-A-U-tiful, guys. This is Daniel Fong. Amazing. Tell us the third song, the third song, because remember the competition had three songs, right? 

Daniel Fong:

Three songs, yeah, so the third song we've got to perform with our guest judges. All of them are A-list superstars in China. We got the third song and stuff, so everybody got good grades. Of course, it's the last song, they've got to do it for the show like, "Everybody's good, you guys improved so much." That's when they actually split us up to top 15. I got in the top 15. I got in the top 15, and I got a contract opportunity with China. 

            Yeah, so it's up to you to actually decide if you want to continue with the journey to sign with that company or not. But, at the end of the day, when I look at the terms and stuff, I had to tell myself, what do I really, really want? Do I want to be a dancer, a K-pop artist or this kind of boy band stuff? If that's what I want, this is the best opportunity for me. At the time, I was thinking to myself, I have to make a really, really strong decision already. 

            I told myself I like acting more. I feel like my journey, from Malaysia, basing in Malaysia would be better, because, number one, I'm the only child, and I am a family kind of guy, so I told them, "I would love future collaborations, but I'm not going to sign to your company." They totally understand, and they're fine with it. 

Eric Feng:

So cool, so only Malaysia gets to enjoy Daniel Fong. That's how you came back. 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah. 

Eric Feng:

Wow, so beautiful. To the guys who are listening today, I wish you can be here at the studio to look at Daniel. I mean, this is his first podcast, by the way, his first official podcast, the first time that we really get to take a look back at the entire four-year journey that Daniel has been. 

            Daniel, we spoke so much about your past, let's talk a little bit about your future. The truth of the matter is your world, it's a scary world sometimes. Some days you're up, some days you're down, aren't you afraid that you'll just be fireworks, that you'll be bright for a while and then after that, someone else will come along? A new face will come along? How do you stay relevant? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, I think that's the problem that all artists, especially in the independent artists such as myself, we are not backed up by a company. We write the plans on our own. We decide how we're going to go through with it. It's very, very scary. There are days where I actually feel like giving up, honestly. I feel like, "Ah, should I just get a day job, continue doing insurance, or should I just do a startup with some friends, invest in some money and stuff?". 

            It's very, very hard, because you are so passionate about this industry. What I did was the next best move which I could think of, which is to pivot my industry. I was in the Chinese industry, so I pivoted the Malay industry. I did that last year, 2020, because we had the pandemic and stuff. In fact, in the Chinese industry, I only had one gig. You can't survive for the whole year from that one gig. What I did, I pivoted to the Malay industry, because the Malay population is more. We actually have more gigs. I was in four Malay dramas last year, ever since with the MCOs open, with the lockdown. 

            From there, I have a lot of other brands as well, because they say like, "Who's this new face in the Malay industry, we want to use him for our commercials, for our branding, social media branding." That opened up new doors for me. 

Eric Feng:

Was it difficult for you to pivot, though, because you've been so used to the Chinese industry? You were in China, and then to switch to the Malay market, was it difficult? 

Daniel Fong:

It's very difficult, in a way, the culture is different. It's still the same, it's just that the way people handle stuff, it could be a little bit different. The language is different, and I've got to speak like a real Malay accent, and that was really, really tough. I was in an international school in high school, so I stopped speaking Malay there. I was in college doing A-levels, using English all the way, and then I went straight to Melbourne. When I came back, I don't have many Malay friends, so when I came back, I was really doing all these gigs in Chinese. I've got to learn Chinese from scratch, as well, because I wasn't really good in Chinese as well. I only speak English. 

Eric Feng:

This is what we call [chi tudou 00:29:43], eat potatoes. 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, so I've got to speak Malay. I got my first drama back in July, 2020, for a Malay drama. They liked my look a lot, so they actually didn't get me a casting. They actually treated my first day as a casting. If they don't like me, they're going to ask the scriptwriter to cut out my character. 

Eric Feng:

Kill you off. 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, they threw me off. They told me you had to be in Terengganu for two days for the shoot. It's one of the suburbs in Malaysia. I was like, "Okay." I did two shoots in Kuala Lumpur, and then I supposed to do two more days in Terengganu. Because, I was doing a lot of reading, I was studying a lot in Malay, trying to get the proper training and stuff, they actually liked me a lot. They actually extended my two days into two weeks in Terengganu. They asked the scriptwriter to add more scenes for me. 

Eric Feng:

Give me more episodes. 

Daniel Fong:

Give me more episode. The character is actually just a very small character, but because they kept adding stuff, it became one of the main supporting characters. 

Eric Feng:

So proud of you, Daniel, oh my god. How do you feel about this achievement? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, I'm still waiting for the drama to come out. It's not out yet. 

Eric Feng:

What's the title of this drama, so we can look out for it? 

Daniel Fong:

It's called Derhaka Cinta Jebat. 

Eric Feng:

What does it mean? 

Daniel Fong:

Derhaka means, it means like or something like that. Cinta means love, and Jebat is a guy's name. That lover, something like that. 

Eric Feng:

I see, okay. We look forward to it, this'll be from Malaysia. We have a very big following of listeners from Malaysia. In fact, for those of you who do not know, I was just telling Daniel, we were number three in the entire business... Or was it number one? I might get it wrong, but my team was very excited about it, so we might actually be number... Number two! I remember, because BFM 89.9, it's a very, very popular radio station, they were number one for the business, I think we were number two. I'll be happy number three, as well. 

            I mean, come on, Daniel is happy being 30 and from 30 becomes top 15. Guys, any one of you who look down and say you can't make it, have Daniel's attitude, hustle attitude. You're going to do fine, man, like what he is right now. 

Daniel Fong:

I think the scariest attitude that's... It's not the scariest, it's actually the best attitude. Those people who won't stop trying, because if you don't stop trying, you will definitely get somewhere. You only lose things when you stop trying. I think it's the same for you as well, Eric. 

Eric Feng:

I love it. It kind of reminds me of Yoda, right? Do or no do, right, there's no try. I know what you mean by trying, it's just do, don't think too much. Sometimes we overthink and overanalyze. 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, you look back at some of your friends, your blasts from the past. You have friends texting you again like, "Hey, I see that you've been doing pretty good," that kind of stuff.

Eric Feng:

Tell us a little bit about social media. How has social media been a very big part of your career branding and everything that you do? Is it a big part? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, I think social media is actually a really, really magical place, because back in the 90s or even in the 20s, when there's not social media, there's no Instagram or Facebook, like how do you determine a celebrity's popularity, honestly? Some people can say that, "He's really popular, he's really popular," there's no numbers to define that. Now with social media, people will define that by using the number of followers, how high your engagement is to determine how popular you are, so it helps me a lot. Even some of the jobs nowadays, they actually look at the number of followers you have. 

Eric Feng:

There you go. I mean, it's all about perception, right Daniel? I mean, whether a person sees that you are popular or in demand has a lot to do with your social media following. It doesn't measure your self-worth, I think it's very important for all of you guys to take note that the number of followers doesn't indicate your self-worth, but it's just a very convenient metric for decision makers to decide if you're credible enough. 

            In my world, Daniel, in the training world, and even in the sales world, people do look at us this way, that when you are in demand, you become more in demand. When you seem to be very busy on social media, everybody wants to do business with you. Is that the same in the entertainment world? 

Daniel Fong:

It is the same. When I was filming in Malaysia, I was doing back-to-back. From last year, ever since the lockdown was lifted up, from July until... In fact, early January, I was still shooting during New Year's Eve. Literally, every day or the day after or the week after, you have gigs. People will be texted you like, "Hey, you've been really busy," and surprisingly, you have a lot of commercial companies texting you like, "Hey, Daniel, we want you to be here, we want you to do that." You'd be surprised like, "Hey, where have you guys been when I was needing some money?". 

Eric Feng:

Yeah, exactly. Do you ask them? Why now? Why you? 

Daniel Fong:

I don't ask so much, "Just give me the job." 

Eric Feng:

Yeah, just give me the money, give me the opportunities, right? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah. What you said, Eric, it makes a lot of sense. People want things that other people want. Let's say I'm buying potato chips from the supermarket. Everybody's eating, it used to be really popular, IRVINS Fish Skin and stuff. I see that person eat it, I want to eat that IRVINS Fish Skin as well. So, when the demand is high, from here, when your peers see it for my line, when the brands see it and stuff, they want to use this guy. I want this guy's face on the cover, this kind of stuff. 

Eric Feng:

You hear it fresh from an entertainer, guys, Daniel Fong. I just want to repeat that this is how the world behaves. I always like to tell them this, when you are a nobody, even your words of wisdom will sound like, but when you are a somebody, even your sounds like words of wisdom. 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, exactly. 

Eric Feng:

Right, so we need to get our brand on social media. Now, what were some of the lessons that you have learned as you're building your brand, because on social media, it can be quite toxic, especially when you see people doing well. We tend to compare our behind-the-scenes with people's highlight reel. Is that an issue for you as well? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, of course. I was saying before, the social media world is a magical place, but it can be very toxic as well, because you are comparing with people from the same field, even your peers, the same age or even younger than you, they're doing so well. You'll be like, "What am I doing? Why aren't I doing that well?" So, I think it's really, really important, especially people in my line or even in the business line, any line you're in, I think that the moment you start comparing with another person... I mean, you have to compare. You have to set your idols. You have to set your heroes. 

            But, it's different than comparing yourself with your peers all the time. How are you going to compare one another? Some people earn a lot at a young age, some of them get a lot, but maybe your time will be at the end, maybe later. So, the moment you stop comparing all the time, that's when you can actually use more of your energy to actually focus on what you're doing and what you're good at. 

Eric Feng:

This is so beautiful. 

Daniel Fong:

You'll get what you want by having more energy to actually focus on what you do. 

Eric Feng:

Most of our energy is burnt up comparing, feeling miserable about ourselves, or trying to compete, but what you're saying is, we should play our own game and all of us will have a moment of glory. Some early, some middle, some late, but we have to play our own game. 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, play our own game. It depends on everybody's personality. Some people, they get it fast because they are hustling every day. They are really, really energetic. They need to burn out the midnight oil to do everything right, so they can get it first. If your personality is you like to take it easy, chill, but you don't get things quite meticulous on this stuff, you'll definitely reach there, as long as you don't stop trying. 

Eric Feng:

Love it. I feel like Daniel's about to rap, really, when you say that, don't stop trying. I think that's a song, or something, don't stop trying, I can't remember. Definitely, that's a good message. 

            Now, Daniel, coming to the end of the podcast, and thank you so, so much for accepting this interview. Now I know why you accepted this interview, because Daniel, it's all about yes, you never know, man. The opportunity can lead you somewhere. Give us a word of encouragement. A lot of people listening to you right now, they're entrepreneurs, they are service professionals, building their own personal brand. They're not in the entertainment world, but they are also looking for customers. They're looking for endorsement. What do you have to say to them to encourage them? 

Daniel Fong:

All right, I think, at the end of the day, it's about focusing on yourself. I always tell that, when I go to universities for a talk or I give a word of advice to a friend, I always say that, at the end of the day, the core, which is your own self. I always tell them a better you will attract a better next. If you focus on improving yourself, taking lessons or whatever, you might not be the best right now. You might not even be good at what you would like to do, but as long as you don't stop improving yourself, you'll definitely attract something better than you have right now. 

Eric Feng:

I love it. A better you leads to a better next. Ladies and gentlemen, that's Daniel Fong. If you are new to him, well, I guess you're going to be his raving fan really, really soon. Daniel, how can we keep in touch with you? How can we enjoy your music? Get to know you, how do we do that? 

Daniel Fong:

Yeah, you can follow my Instagram, it's @danielfongwc. I'm also playing TikTok right now, so I started playing a little bit. Literally, all my social medias are danielfongwc. 

Eric Feng:

Fantastic, all you TikTokers out there, go check out Daniel. I'll put, now, all his Instagram and all his different social media handles in the show notes, so that's where you can reach out to Daniel. Please go say hi to him, DM him, he's very friendly. Tell him what you have taken away from today's interview. I think that would be pretty cool. We want to know, what's your biggest takeaway? Daniel, thank you so much, I look forward to see you flourish in every single country in this world. All the best, I hope to see you in person soon, all right. 

Daniel Fong:

All right, see you too, Eric, thank you so much for this opportunity. 

Eric Feng:

Thank you so much for listening to the entire interview. I trust that it was valuable to you. Now, it would mean the world to me if you could write me a review. So, who knows, your review may be featured in the very next episode, so what are you waiting for? Go, go, write a review now. 

            #HighlySoughtAfter