The #HighlySoughtAfter Talk Show

1. How to deal with haters on social media - Xiaxue

January 01, 2021
The #HighlySoughtAfter Talk Show
1. How to deal with haters on social media - Xiaxue
Show Notes Transcript

In this inaugural episode of #HighlySoughtAfter, I sat down with OG influencer Xiaxue to chat about her journey to social media fame. She has 594K followers on Instagram and 238K subscribers on YouTube. Love her or hate her, when she speaks, people sit up and listen.

Pay special attention to 51:43 when Xiaxue shared her unique way of dealing with haters on social media. Her answer was EPIC!  


Also listen out for her answers to the following questions. 

  • Has fame changed you for worse or for good? 7:50
  • How do you stay so prolific (when many others during your time are now “have beens”? 30:40
  • How did you find your own unique voice as an influencer? 33:19
  • You have a knack in picking up a good story, how do you spot a good story/post? Do you have a creative process? 36:48
  • What were some of your most memorable content (across your blog, Instagram & YouTube)? 38:17
  • You have very hard-core fans. Why do you think they like you so much? 40:22
  • What are your tips when it comes to Instagram? 44:56
  • What are your tips when it comes to YouTube? 46:53
  • Were you happier with 1000 followers or 100,000 followers? 48:06
  • You have a lot of haters too, but they never seem to intimidate you. How do you do that? 51:43
  • What would you advise entrepreneurs who are trying to put themselves out there on social media? 56:34
  • How do we decide which social media platform to be on? 58:46

If you want to keep in touch with Xiaxue, you can reach her on Instagram @xiaxue

Read these books to become highly sought after in your own industry -> www.pickericsbrain.com

Thank you for listening to this inaugural episode of #HighlySoughtAfter! 

If you enjoyed this episode, please help me hit the ‘subscribe’ button if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts or hit the ‘follow’ button if you are listening on Spotify. 
 
I would also love to hear your biggest takeaway from this episode! Here’s how: take a screenshot of you listening to #HighlySoughtAfter and tag me on Instagram. My handle is @ericgoesglobal. This way, I can personally thank you! 

Xia Xue:

These haters are really just losers. I have never met a hater who turned out to be a really, successful and powerful person in life or happy person. These are just angry losers, and it's just like being affected by what these angry losers ... They're just basement dwellers that don't know what the (beep) they're doing. They're just angry. They're angry at everything. I'm just like, "Oh my god, I feel so sorry for you that you are like that. [crosstalk 00:00:23]."

Eric Feng:

You can't fix them. Hi, this is Eric here, and you're listening to #HighlySoughtAfter. In this inaugural episode of #HighlySoughtAfter, we have with us a prolific pink personality, a Singapore icon that has amassed millions of followers all around the world. She's none other than Wendy Cheng, or more formally known as Xia Xue.

Xia Xue:

Oh, yay.

Eric Feng:

I always feel like when I saw Xia Xue, we need to do some effects, snowing.

Xia Xue:

Oh my God, [inaudible 00:01:01].

Eric Feng:

Yeah, it's fun. So you've been doing this for 15 years, I calculated. 2003 was when you started. No, 16. Anyway, yeah. My math is really bad.

Xia Xue:

16, yeah. Oh my gosh, it makes me feel really old. 

Eric Feng:

If you raised a kid at 2003, that kid is already going [crosstalk 00:01:21].

Xia Xue:

Oh my God, it's true.

Eric Feng:

So what were some of the words that people have used on you? The good, the bad, the ugly? What are some words you can think about?

Xia Xue:

Rude. Obviously I'm rude. People say, what else? I use [inaudible 00:01:43]?

Eric Feng:

No, it's okay. The fact is there are people, if you look at her comments, you see a lot of very positive. But still, what were some that caught your eye?

Xia Xue:

Okay, so I'll give two bad and two good. A rude one. Good, let me think. Brave. They say that. Then bad one, let me see. I get called midget a lot. But that's a description on the face. So okay, let me think. Vain maybe. Vain, yeah.

Eric Feng:

Vain, is that bad?

Xia Xue:

Yeah, I think they use it in a bad context. But mostly just the opinions are stupid. 

Eric Feng:

Okay, so rude and vain, then the good one is very brave?

Xia Xue:

Good one, brave. 

Eric Feng:

I got one that I see a lot, very intelligent. The way you put forward arguments, you make sense. You're not a brash girl just making a point. Were they accurate? Is that who you were even before you started your blogging?

Xia Xue:

I would think so because I come from an era where nobody goes into blogging with the express purpose of being famous or leveraging on it in any way. So can you imagine a world where you start your social media and you never knew that you could become popular, that you can get sponsorships, that one day you can make this your full-time job? It was never done before. I'm really the cavewoman who is literally playing with the sparks.

Eric Feng:

The [crosstalk 00:03:08], essentially.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, the spark of the stone and thinking something is coming out, but you don't know what that fire is for or how good this thing would be, because it's just not invented yet.

Eric Feng:

So what got you to even get started on blogging in the first place?

Xia Xue:

I have always been a big extrovert, so I love sharing. I love interacting with people. And I just love telling stories, yeah, and sharing my opinions. And I always feel like for me when I feel upset about something, I need to vent it out to feel better.

Eric Feng:

It becomes an avenue for you to communicate.

Xia Xue:

Yes, so it's just my form of therapy, in a way. I vent it out and when people agree with me, I'm like, "Yes, right." It makes me feel so much better. 

Eric Feng:

It's like today's version of Instagram where you do a poll where you go yes or no, and then about yes.

Xia Xue:

I'm yes, yeah. 

Eric Feng:

Do you still remember your first post? Evil laughter.

Xia Xue:

I don't really remember. Something very childish and stupid about my crush, or something like that.

Eric Feng:

So let me highlight to you again, her first post was on 23rd April 2003, okay? And it was posted at 03:24 AM. So something never changed, you still sleep very late.

Xia Xue:

Yeah.

Eric Feng:

And I felt that is very symbolic. Your very first sentence into the blogging world is very symbolic.

Xia Xue:

Nobody has done [crosstalk 00:04:37] say something.

Eric Feng:

It is scarily symbolic. You know what she said?

Xia Xue:

What?

Eric Feng:

Today is eventful. That was your very first statement to the world. Today is eventful.

Xia Xue:

I totally did not remember saying that.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, today is eventful. Obviously, after that you have a long paragraph.

Xia Xue:

Right, was it really eventful?

Eric Feng:

Yeah, you say that because ... Okay, so what happened, I'll read to you, okay? First I went to school for DVPA. What is DVPA?

Xia Xue:

A class.

Eric Feng:

Okay, a class. And I got pissed with both Gwen and Erin respectively because of her face and his face. And I was like [crosstalk 00:05:11]. I think Gwen laughs too loud for non-funny, just meant to piss Wendy off jokes by anyone who thinks they might like to poke fun at a short bitch. So it's very interesting how in that simple first sentence, we're really seeing a lot about yourself. You even poke fun at yourself. I mean, nobody calls themselves a bitch, short. Erin is a sick backstabber [inaudible 00:05:36]. Oh, well. But the second paragraph was very, very interesting.

Xia Xue:

He's reading it in good English. When it's written there, it's terribly written. Like 'don't,' I spelt at D-U-N, for example. Yeah.

Eric Feng:

And 'because' is C-O-Z.

Xia Xue:

I still write that. 'Because' is too long. 

Eric Feng:

Those of you who know her, that's very typical of Xia Xue. She's very open with her words and she's very expressive, and she will say it as it is, call a spade a spade. I think that's what makes you very well known. But most people would provably not read past that and see another side of you, which I saw. And that's the next paragraph. That's why I say if I study this text like literature, it really describes you.

Xia Xue:

I had two readers at that time.

Eric Feng:

Only two readers? Who, yourself-

Xia Xue:

Yes, that's why I can go and talk shit about my classmates.

Eric Feng:

Oh, nobody knows. Then why you never deleted it off when you became more well-known? Because your friends were definitely going to read that.

Xia Xue:

I don't know why.

Eric Feng:

You didn't even change their names.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, I never.

Eric Feng:

The next paragraph, I like to think that Gwen is a gift from God to come to my life to stretch my patience to its best limit. She is, in fact, someone who would do good for me in my life. I just don't ... And she used 'dun'. I don't like to think that angels look like that. It's a horrible thought. Digressing, I met Eddy for dinner today. So I felt what was very unique about you is you do rant for the sake of ranting, but you have a point. You have a point or view.

Xia Xue:

There's no point, it's just to talk shit about my-

Eric Feng:

The patience, the patience one is very reflective, don't you feel? That people are sent to our lives to piss us off, but also to make us grow. So I felt that it's quite mature for ... How old were you?

Xia Xue:

18.

Eric Feng:

18 years old. It's not bad. 

Xia Xue:

I don't think I sincerely meant it. I don't think so. I just wrote it as [crosstalk 00:07:19]-

Eric Feng:

You see, that's the problem with words, you cannot sense ... Maybe if you do a video you feel like she is so sarcastic. 

Xia Xue:

The point of saying that is to say that she doesn't look like an angel. That's the point of that sentence. It's not totally realistic. 

Eric Feng:

Guys, I saw the best in here and I read her totally wrong. So I guess it's true, [inaudible 00:07:36].

Xia Xue:

Maybe. I don't know what I was thinking. It was so many years ago. It's maybe 16 years old.

Eric Feng:

I'm curious because today Xia Xue has about 600,000 followers on Instagram, 240,000 YouTube subscribers and if you say the word Xia Xue, everybody knows her. My question is most of us are very curious about what was your biggest struggle back then when you first started?

Xia Xue:

Struggle-

Eric Feng:

I think there are two phases. Phase one is when you were not even sure that you're going to make this a career, you were just blogging for the sake of blogging. 

Xia Xue:

At that point you mean?

Eric Feng:

At that point, yeah.

Xia Xue:

You mean monetarily wise, is it?

Eric Feng:

Yeah, phase one. Phase one is you are just blogging for blogging purpose. Phase two is when you start to realize this could be a lucrative career. So let's talk about phase one first, okay?

Xia Xue:

Okay.

Eric Feng:

When you were blogging, were there any struggles? Did you face any challenges?

Xia Xue:

I think the whole dealing with fame thing changes your friendship dynamics a lot.

Eric Feng:

Even at the beginning?

Xia Xue:

Oh, definitely. It's just weird to suddenly see your good friend become famous? How are you supposed to feel about that? And I am very aware of that, because I love attention. So I just happened with my friend, I might feel a bit jealous. Always attention is on you, are we talking about you again? Kind of thing. So I feel very sensitive to these kind of things when I'm around people, so I try always to tone it down. I still don't really like it when I'm out with my friends and people pay a lot of attention to me. It's just a bit uncomfortable for me.

            Sometimes people when they meet me, they want a photo, they will just shove the camera to my friend. It's not my assistant. "Can you take a photo?" Some don't even ask, "Can you take a photo?" They're talking to me, and they're still looking at me, they just stick the camera-

Eric Feng:

So your friend feels invisible around you?

Xia Xue:

Yeah, so I don't like that feeling because if I put myself in their shoes, I wouldn't like it. Just dealing in general with a lot of the dynamics with my friends, I remember my core group of secondary friends, they said I was getting a bit conceited with the whole blog popularity thing and a bit obsessed over it. Every single day I would blog, sometimes twice. So they say, "How come our opinions don't matter to you anymore? Because when we say something, you just say 'But all the blog readers agree with me'." Yeah, then they felt a bit slighted.

            So I was very careful to handle that part well. But everything was fine. There was no falling out or anything. I still maintain a lot of my secondary school friends today, so it's still okay. Yeah.

Eric Feng:

So you were very worried about how your friends deal with your popularity?

Xia Xue:

In a way, yeah. 

Eric Feng:

You blogged for a while, right? You have 1,282 posts on your blog.

Xia Xue:

Oh, really?

Eric Feng:

Yeah. At which point in the 1,282 posts you discover that you've got the attention of Singapore, at least at the start? How did you know you're getting famous?

Xia Xue:

Okay, I don't know which blog post it is, but I remember somewhere in my poly years. I started when I was 18, I think poly years is still-

Eric Feng:

21, no?

Xia Xue:

21, okay. So maybe my second year of poly. Last poly was 17, 18, 19 maybe. About one year into it. I started realizing that people randomly come up to me in school to say, "I read your blog." But I never truly felt like Singapore knew who I was. It was more the very young crowd. I always feel like I'm not famous until I eat at a [inaudible 00:11:25] store and the owner asked me to take a photo of his food and put it on the wall, next to people like [inaudible 00:11:31].

Eric Feng:

I'm sure people know [inaudible 00:11:35].

Xia Xue:

No, actually they still don't really. But sometimes, yeah. They ask [inaudible 00:11:41]. Really they don't know who I am.

Eric Feng:

Maybe they don't really go on social media.

Xia Xue:

Yeah. I always don't feel like I'm famous until I sit in a café and I know for sure that people know who I am.

Eric Feng:

Okay, got it.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, so it's only young people. At a certain point I started realizing this is beyond my friends already. Because strangers were coming up to me. I knew that from the start, within the next two weeks of blogging I had about 300 unique views a day, which was-

Eric Feng:

From [inaudible 00:12:09] first post to-

Xia Xue:

Yeah, I don't know it spread. So it was not like I was advertising anywhere. It was pure word of mouth. But I think people were really starved of things to visit online at that time because websites were shitty. It was the era of [Geocities 00:12:25]. Yeah.

Eric Feng:

Oh, I remember Geocities. The whole blinking words.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, you had nothing to do online. People were bored. They were going to [inaudible 00:12:33]. 

Eric Feng:

And you know what, guys, stay with on this interview because we're going to go into the tactics of social media in a very short while, but we're still at Xia Xue's backstory, which strangely we don't get to hear a lot about, right? So phase one, friends. You were very concerned about how your friends deal with it. That was your biggest challenge. Then at what point did you decide to make this a career?

Xia Xue:

I think I repeated this story a few times, but I'll just say it again. I met this dude called [inaudible 00:13:04]. He's my good friend now. He's a really entrepreneurial sort of person, and he started a T-shirt design brand. He know longer sells it now. He works for his family business. But he was doing it for fun, selling T-shirts online with his own design and slogan. He found my blog and then he was like, "Can I advertise with you? And you'd be my brand ambassador? I'll let you wear my T-shirts. You have to wear it four times in a month at least, in photos."

Eric Feng:

Which year was that?

Xia Xue:

2005, I think.

Eric Feng:

Oh my God, this guy is way ahead of his time.

Xia Xue:

No, yeah. He is. It never has happened before.

Eric Feng:

Because that is like what's happening now. But he did it 10 years ago.

Xia Xue:

So this is really crazy. He literally started it. It's never happened in the past. So he said, "Wear it on your blog and I'll give you $300 a month."

Eric Feng:

Okay, free T-shirts and you get to earn some money.

Xia Xue:

$300. I was like, "Wow, so much money, free T-shirts, of course." And I post pictures anyway, everyday. So I have to be wearing something. So instead of repeating all my clothes, his T-shirts had pretty chill designs. So he was the one who started this. And then he also advised me, "Look, you have a golden window of opportunity. I don't know how long it's going to last. But while it lasts you need to leverage on it." Because the marketing, advertising mediums are very stale. It's all traditional media and this is a new ... The T-shirts sold really well.

            And he said I'm very influential. He said that from the start. And he said, "Marketers, once they realize how good you are, they will all come running to you." Because he said it's so cheap compared to a TV ad, and it's so much more effective. So many people see it. At that time, it was maybe a few thousand a day in terms of views. So, that was what he said. And then he said, "You really need to work on this." Because I was a very poor student at that time, I would just do very cheap things all the time.

Eric Feng:

Like what?

Xia Xue:

For example, going to [inaudible 00:15:12] going very close to the person in front of me so I can save on the monthly fee. [inaudible 00:15:14] entry.

Eric Feng:

[crosstalk 00:15:14] do that there?

Xia Xue:

Yeah, before it closed on me. Yeah, I would do that. Yeah.

Eric Feng:

No wonder people say you're brave. I would not have the courage to do that.

Xia Xue:

So yeah, my bus. You know [inaudible 00:15:31] bus stamps? I'm pretty sure I'm correct. 

Eric Feng:

Correct, yes. 

Xia Xue:

So I realized a way to get out of buying bus stamps, and for months and months I just wouldn't buy it. So you get an old bus stamp and while the ... Do they still have bus stamps?

Eric Feng:

[inaudible 00:15:42].

Xia Xue:

Okay, yeah. So anyway, that month bus pass used to cost a certain amount of money. So I'd take the money my mother gave me for the bus stamp and I used it for myself. It was like $50. So I would just [inaudible 00:15:56]. Search in my bag for very long for the thing. Actually, I know where it is.

Eric Feng:

[inaudible 00:16:01], for the people who are not from Singapore, it means pretend.

Xia Xue:

Pretending to search for us, and then the bus driver had no choice but to drive off because people are waiting for you. So while he's impatient, he's got to drive, his eyes are on the road. Then I would just flash and go. Because he's already driving, he cannot be bothered to check me. Yeah.

Eric Feng:

How did you come up with this idea?

Xia Xue:

I used [inaudible 00:16:22]. That's how I avoided paying for a whole year of bus fare.

Eric Feng:

Okay. 

Xia Xue:

I'm getting distracted from the story. He said, "Why are you still trying to pay for ..." Because I liked colorful hair and stuff, "Why are you still paying for your hair? People will be so happy to sponsor you. And if they don't want to, they're idiots." He said that. I said, "How am I supposed to [inaudible 00:16:47]. Excuse me, do you want-"

Eric Feng:

[inaudible 00:16:51] means [inaudible 00:16:50]?

Xia Xue:

Yeah, [inaudible 00:16:54]. I cannot be so brash and tell business owners, "Hey, do you want to give me free nails?" Then they'll be like, "Who the (beep) are you? What is a (beep) blogger? I've never heard of such a thing."

Eric Feng:

Yeah, exactly. 

Xia Xue:

At this point it was only young people knew who I was, and people who are in marketing and stuff, they don't know who I am. So he just said, "Make a portfolio for yourself. Put in all these newspaper articles that are written about you, and provide all your stats, and tell them how many views you have and everything so they will see all this and they can decide for themselves." Anyway, it's very cheap for them. What is it to them? Giving a few free nails is not that expensive.

Eric Feng:

It's not like they're going to pay you.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, that's what he said last. So I just said, "Okay, well I guess I'll go try." So I did, and that was the start of all blogger hair sponsorships, nail sponsorships. Nowadays, every other influencer has one. 

Eric Feng:

Yeah.

Xia Xue:

But at the start, it was-

Eric Feng:

This is 2005.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, 2004. 

Eric Feng:

'04, yeah.

Xia Xue:

It was really early. Yeah. It was so difficult for me. So I went to this hair salon, I realized at the time it was [inaudible 00:17:52]. I somehow managed to ask to speak to the boss, and she met me. Meeting her, I was so stressed out because I was this 18 year old ago. No agent or anything. I was just telling them my portfolio like, Jesus Christ, I need to promote myself. So I went there. I was like, "Hey, I want to work with you guys. Blah, blah, blah." And she was like, "Okay, fine." 

            And I was like, "Really?" Then she was like, "Yeah, but you're going to the student one." So I was a guinea pig. But even if you want to be paying for the students, you still have to pay money. It's just cheaper, yeah. So it's a cheaper, free hair salon. So I went and I was very happy because I really liked having colored hair, but it's so expensive to get it bleached. So I came free. And to be fair, they did an okay job. So all this started and then after that, one day I had a controversy on my blog about some handicapped thing. 

            And then it went on newspapers and she called me, and she was like, "Wendy, I saw this thing. Unfortunately we need to drop you." So they dropped me from their ambassadorship. 

Eric Feng:

How did you feel?

Xia Xue:

I was very angry.

Eric Feng:

Angry, not devastated? Angry, that was your first emotion?

Xia Xue:

I don't (beep) about her anymore. (beep) your company, who you are. I'll be okay.

Eric Feng:

What were you angry about?

Xia Xue:

I was very angry because I hate making my haters feel happy. That is my number one pet peeve, and they are gloating about it. They are so happy that this thing happened. How dare you? You're making them happy. From then on, I vowed on never to be an ambassador unless I expressly sign it in the contract that you (beep) drop me for controversial reasons. She knew what she was getting into. She knew how my blog was like. How can she just suddenly, "I'm going to drop you. It's over." And to me, I obstinately still feel that I did no wrong in the article.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, you guys do your own research about that article. 

Xia Xue:

Yeah. So that article is just about me going and talking about handicapped toilets, and I just feel like normal people are entitled to use it. I never felt it was like a parking lot where only handicapped people can use it.

Eric Feng:

Just a side note, guys. One of the things that I felt Xia Xue is very good at is she's able to pick up trending topics or be able to find a good story. And we'll talk about that later during the content creation bit. Because for you to have a voice, you need to be able to talk about things that people care about. Obviously, people care a lot about handicapped toilets.

Xia Xue:

Today?

Eric Feng:

No, for you creating content-

Xia Xue:

It was definitely not a trending topic. Because sometimes when I blog things I know that it will be controversial. So I always try to think about what people will argue first and give my defense. Because by the time you come out with your second blog post, half the people are not really-

Eric Feng:

It's like in university or in general, people, they argue for-

Xia Xue:

Yeah, in my mind somebody is arguing with me. But that one, the handicapped toilet one, absolutely did not expect a backlash. Did not expect it. Because for girls, when you go into a normal toilet, let's say everyone is queuing up for the five cubicles, if the empty one is the handicapped one, you just go in. So really I was so shocked to realize that my friend, [inaudible 00:21:00], the one who did the T-shirt, he said he disagreed with me.

Eric Feng:

He disagreed with you as well?

Xia Xue:

Yeah, he said he's not offended over my point of view, but he disagrees. He thinks that it should be only for handicapped people.

Eric Feng:

Wow. 

Xia Xue:

Yeah. But he didn't drop me. He said, "I'm not going to drop you. I support that you have your own opinion." So he was the only one that stayed true. And I had a new sponsor that dropped me as well. Yeah.

Eric Feng:

But would you say that sometimes comeback is a lot sweeter, right? So what was your comeback?

Xia Xue:

[crosstalk 00:21:25] comeback.

Eric Feng:

It means you tried to ... for how long, and then the next good thing happened for you?

Xia Xue:

I can't remember. I think there was no immediate good part to that, except that now my hair sponsorship was a lot better, so (beep) them.

Eric Feng:

[crosstalk 00:21:48]?

Xia Xue:

Yeah, of course. But at that time I was very annoyed that the haters were so gloating.

Eric Feng:

Could you say that that is your biggest challenge in your entire career, the haters?

Xia Xue:

No, I love that part.

Eric Feng:

Oh, they were the highlight for your career?

Xia Xue:

I wouldn't say that's a challenge for me at all.

Eric Feng:

What would be your challenge, then? Phase two is where you make this a career, today.

Xia Xue:

Monetarily wise, you mean?

Eric Feng:

No, it could be any challenge. A real, legit challenge for you.

Xia Xue:

I think the biggest challenge is dealing with the fact that people around me are affected by my fame.

Eric Feng:

So it still is?

Xia Xue:

Sometimes in a negative way. The friends one is more their relationship with me. This one is if I'm famous, people attack my mother, attack my brother. So I don't like that. It really irritates me a lot.

Eric Feng:

They can get you? 

Xia Xue:

Correct, and it really hurts me. Because they cannot hurt me. There is nothing you can say that will hurt me, but you will hurt me by hurting people-

Eric Feng:

Yeah, it's like watching a movie. I can't hurt the hero, I'll hurt everybody around the hero. 

Xia Xue:

Correct. So it's very evil of them because these are innocent people. But to them, they don't care. They just want to see me hurt.

Eric Feng:

How do you deal with it?

Xia Xue:

I don't let them see that I'm hurt.

Eric Feng:

Okay.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, because it gives them satisfaction when I do that. I will just live the best life that I can and just let everybody feel very, very upset about it.

Eric Feng:

So that's your motivation?

Xia Xue:

That's definitely my motivation.

Eric Feng:

Later on we'll talk about that. How do we deal with critics and haters as well. So guys, that's Xia Xue and thank you so much for sharing your backstory with us. Today you have 608,000 IG followers, 240,000 YouTube subscribers, big brands have taken you global, because I follower her. You were in Japan recently as well. Which other countries are you going?

Xia Xue:

I'm going to Milan in two days. 

Eric Feng:

Oh my God, for Fashion?

Xia Xue:

Yeah, for Fashion. It's my first time for Fashion.

Eric Feng:

Okay.

Xia Xue:

I'm just going as my friend's plus one. 

Eric Feng:

Who cares? You'll be there still. What other countries have you been to because of this career or representing brands?

Xia Xue:

The more memorable ones that are weird, in Georgia, for example. I went to Georgia for a work conference to talk about social media. I have a very loyal fan there, her name is [Mariane 00:23:56], from Georgia. Not US Georgia, the European.

Eric Feng:

The Europe Georgia.

Xia Xue:

So that is a country that most Singaporeans wouldn't travel to normally. So when I went there, it was really cool. Just looks like a normal part of Europe, actually, any part of Europe. So went there for a work trip, and places, just the normal cities like Tokyo or Zurich. Have you seen I went to Hawaii? I went to Maldives with Benefit, and that was one of my bucket list. It was so nice.

Eric Feng:

Checking off.

Xia Xue:

Yeah.

Eric Feng:

So this job of representing brands, sharing and teaching to your followers takes you around the world. What I'm very curious about is you've done this for 15, 16 years already, there must be something you did right. What do you think that is?

Xia Xue:

I think I was very lucky I started very early. So I think starting early in my platform helped a lot because, firstly, there wasn't any competition. The barrier of entry is so low. Nowadays, if you want to be an influencer you have to look so good and this and that. There are so many people to compete with and it's so saturated. In the past, the internet is very boring. There are very few things you can do online. So now the internet is so full of interesting things to do, it's very difficult to get someone's attention.

            So that was then. It helped then by being early. Then subsequently, I think it is being consistent and never giving up on that. 

Eric Feng:

Consistent about what?

Xia Xue:

Consistent about giving content. Blogging, which I don't really do anymore, or following up with Instagram, or going with the trends of videos. So it's consistent. Because there are some famous bloggers back then that decided to give up. Maybe they decided that blog is not going to be a full-time career, it's too unstable. So they're scared or whatever. But for me, I don't really care what finances are. I'm really, really bad with finances.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, you can even squeeze through the [inaudible 00:26:03].

Xia Xue:

No, that shows that I care. But now that I have sufficient money to live a relatively comfortable life, I really don't care about earning money. Money does not motivate. You can tell me, "I'll give you $10,000, go ahead." I'm too lazy. I will just be [crosstalk 00:26:14]-

Eric Feng:

What motivates you?

Xia Xue:

Revenge. Only revenge motivates me. 

Eric Feng:

The part about not making your haters-

Xia Xue:

Not revenge, but righteous indignation. 

Eric Feng:

Righteous indignation. Okay, that motivates you.

Xia Xue:

Yeah. So typically, all the blog posts that you see that I'm very passionate about and that I've put a lot of effort in is when I'm very angry, yeah.

Eric Feng:

Because you have a point of view and you have something to express, right?

Xia Xue:

Yes.

Eric Feng:

And that, I would say, from an outsider's point of view, is that also one of your secrets, your formula. Maybe you don't realize it, but that you have a point of view. That stands out.

Xia Xue:

How do you go and get a point of view if you don't have one?

Eric Feng:

Because you think it. If you have your own original thinking ... Because I feel that a lot of us, we don't have a lot of original thought because we don't know how to think independently. So we tend to think based on what media says. We tend to think based on what our friends say. But I feel that you have a very unique point of view. This is how you think. And then back then there's no social media. But now with social media it's very easy for you to, "This is what I believe in." And it's polarizing.

            It just happens that you have a majority of people who agree with you. I say the silent supporters. But you have very vocal haters as well, and maybe they are the ones that make you so popular.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, definitely. For sure. Thank you very much.

Eric Feng:

Thank you, haters. Guys, haters are not that bad. It makes you stand out.

Xia Xue:

Oh, I love my haters. I love them.

Eric Feng:

How do you deal with haters?

Xia Xue:

Let me complete the part about I was saying [crosstalk 00:27:47]. So I think another part of it is keeping up with the platforms. So in the past, it was blogging was the in thing. Then after that, people moved onto social media platforms. So being able to move your content there, sometimes it's not that easy because you get used to a certain platform. For example, YouTube is very different from blogging. Also, that part I got lucky because I started working with the [inaudible 00:28:09] Network boss, Gillian, who taught me a lot about video. 

            I was very unnatural and not a very interesting person in front of the camera in the past. I was very awkward, I mumbled a lot and I would say things all the time. Over the years, started being a lot more natural and knowing that when you say certain things, it will be good on camera. Do certain things, it will be good on camera. But sometimes it's not. Because it's very different from blogging, you see. On the blog, I can be long or use very difficult words. But on camera, you have to be quick, be interesting, and it's just ... Yeah, so I managed to transfer that.

            Because it was reading long-form and then became short-form like Twitter, then it became Instagram, photo based, and then also now obviously people have a lot more bandwidth so they watch a lot more videos. Also now, obviously people have a lot more bandwidth, so they watch a lot of videos. So being able to move your content from one place to another, and moving my followers from one to another, that's the important part. You still need to move them and then retain them, so that's the difficult thing.

Eric Feng:

Got it. So being first, that was one. Number two is being able to move from platform to platform. So go with the trend, right? That's number two. From my point of view, three would be that you have a point of view. How about what other things you found you did right?

Xia Xue:

It's not easy keeping consistent with-

Eric Feng:

And being consistent with your content.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, you have to keep giving. And I feel that part, it's tough now because unless you are genuinely very passionate and you really like it, it's very tough to keep this up for 16 years and keep doing content. I would say at no point in my ever career have I thought, "I don't want to post anything anymore. I just want to be an unknown person. I want to give it all up and move to an unknown island and live there." It has never happened in my life. I love sharing. I always liked it. 

            I love creating content. I love editing a photo and posting it out, that has always been-

Eric Feng:

Your passion, you enjoy doing?

Xia Xue:

Yeah. Luckily, this passion has not gone away. So even now where I'm sharing with you, it feels like I'm blogging. It's the same kind of joy that I'm having right now.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, having a conversation just in spoken form.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, so sometimes I feel if you don't have it, there's nothing you can really do about it. You can't force it.

Eric Feng:

Hey, this is Eric here just dropping here to check in on you. Are you getting value so far from this interview? Because if you are, I'm very happy for you, and I'm really curious to know what are some of the key takeaways? So after the interview, go to social media, screenshot your learnings and tag me, all right, so that we can connect. Okay, I'm going to leave you to listen to the rest of the interview, enjoy. 

            So what do you think the modern day influencers do wrong?

Xia Xue:

Wrong?

Eric Feng:

Yeah. You are like their sister, right? You're their big sister. And if you're watching this, I don't know if they're going to watch this, but if they're watching this, what advice do you have for them? 

Xia Xue:

Well, I-

Eric Feng:

Because they're living in a more difficult time, like you say, inattention and so much competition.

Xia Xue:

Well, I think that what I say just now, it needs to be from a place of passion. And I don't like it when people ask me, "Hey, I want to be a blogger too. I want to make it my career. So what should I blog about?" Don't ask me that. If you don't have something that you want to write about, why are you blogging? You blog because you want money, that is not going to last you ... people can tell that you're doing it for money. People can tell that you're not sincere in your sharing and you seem desperate. Yeah.

Eric Feng:

You're trying too hard.

Xia Xue:

You're trying too hard.

Eric Feng:

Or that you're going to social media to be famous.

Xia Xue:

Correct. 

Eric Feng:

Famous cannot be the end goal. It has to be a fruit. 

Xia Xue:

In a way, it's your by-product. 

Eric Feng:

A by-product. The main purpose is that you want to share, you want to make an impact, in your own way.

Xia Xue:

And it absolutely makes a difference because at the start, when I started blogging, it just sounded like I was shouting into a void. It sounded so natural because I really didn't think anyone was watching. Yeah. So that's how I feel that people who go into this field, you should genuinely want to share. And think about it, if you're not getting any money, in fact it's giving you grief, would you still be doing it? Yeah. So, the answer is I think a lot people they say no, they just look at influencers getting sponsored, flying business class, this and that. They want to do it because I also want all those.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, they see all the glamor but they don't see all the sweat behind it.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, correct.

Eric Feng:

So maybe we go one more level deeper. So a person wants to share, must it be an area that they are good at or just an area that they're passionate about?

Xia Xue:

I would say the passion is more important that being good.

Eric Feng:

The heart is more important, okay.

Xia Xue:

Yeah. You can be funny and just do it wrongly, it's fine. Because you can learn along the way. And eventually if you keep doing something over and over again, and you're open to learning, you eventually get good at it. Yeah. Unless you are very, very stupid then I can't help you. But you just need to keep doing it, and you will keep doing it because you like it anyway. 

Eric Feng:

Got it. So passion is a very good starting point, and how you know your passion bares you fruits is when people start to pay attention to you and that's when you monetize the influence. 

Xia Xue:

Everyone has their own secret skill, right? You can focus on that. If, for example, I really like cooking, then I can be sharing my cooking and that can be my niche. So you may not be better than everyone else, but you can more passionate about your thing.

Eric Feng:

Correct. And then eventually you'll find your voice, right? Talking about voice, how do you find your voice? It started off with you venting, or not even venting, you were just sharing your life to void, right? You were just blogging. I remember you said it's a form of therapy. But it was very certain that as time goes, there was a very distinctive voice. Today I'm pretty sure if I read something, I can tell this is Xia Xue's voice, if I read it. But how do you develop that distinctive voice of yours?

Xia Xue:

You're not going to like this answer.

Eric Feng:

No, just tell us as it is. 

Xia Xue:

I didn't. I was just like that.

Eric Feng:

Just being yourself?

Xia Xue:

Yeah. It was how I talk to my friends, I would just write like that. 

Eric Feng:

Well, it's scary to be yourself, right?

Xia Xue:

Because a lot of my articles are argumentative. So I always feel like, as along the way I learn as well, for example, that you have to preempt what people will argue about and give your defense first. And stuff like that you learn along the way, of what works, what doesn't work. Sometimes it's like you post a photo on Instagram, you know that this is going to get a lot of likes. For example, I know that any photo that is lovey dove with my husband will get a lot of likes. For some reason people really like it, even though I personally don't like it.

Eric Feng:

But it resonates with people's emotions.

Xia Xue:

I don't know why people like it. When I see a couple, I roll my eyes. It's very boring content to me. I'd rather be looking at babies, or new art, or new makeup, stuff like this. That is what I like, but people like it. When I post, at the back of my mind I will know that his photo will be good, so I better make sure I did it more properly and I better put a better picture, thing like that is a little bit ... you start to learn. And then, for example, now if I take a photo of, [inaudible 00:35:03] myself, I think it's an interesting story, I want to post about it on Instagram. But the next day I drop 200 followers because [inaudible 00:35:13] very ugly on Instagram. Nobody wants to see-

Eric Feng:

Would you post it?

Xia Xue:

I won't post that because I will think that it'll make me drop followers. Subconsciously you won't want to already. Maybe it doesn't have to be a very try hard thing, but there are things ... But I really want to share about this [inaudible 00:35:24] thing, but I'll go and put it on IG stories or I'll go and put it on Twitter. That's the avenue for it. People don't care. they won't unfollow you for it. 

Eric Feng:

Yeah. So it's good that you brought us to this direction. Let's go to the different areas, right? We all know that our content is very important. What is your thought process every time you come out with your content? Is there a question you ask before you post that content? Because you have an eye for content, the [inaudible 00:35:49] was a good example. I follow the conversation about [inaudible 00:35:53] and how she felt that [inaudible 00:35:55] were doing it on purpose. So I thought that was interesting. 

            You did anther one which is if you were stuck on an island, who would you choose? A good looking guy or the better looking guy, but there conditions as well. One can survive.

Xia Xue:

One is-

Eric Feng:

[Steven 00:36:11].

Xia Xue:

Steven [Ling 00:36:12]. Would you rather be stuck on an island with Steven Ling or alone.

Eric Feng:

Or be alone. but Steven Lee is somebody that you either like or you don't like. So would you want to stay-

Xia Xue:

No, the [inaudible 00:36:23] of that is that nobody likes him, so a person in general goes, "[inaudible 00:36:28]."

Eric Feng:

You started talking about if Steven Ling knew how to cook a chicken then maybe because survival skills are important. 

Xia Xue:

I would definitely stay with him on the island. Hopefully he's not rapey, but yeah. At least men can kill things. If I'm alone, I I should die.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, so [inaudible 00:36:44] to survival.

Xia Xue:

And I'll be so lonely. I'd rather talk with Steven Ling than nobody for 10 years.

Eric Feng:

See, that's the thing. You are very on point when it comes to content. Very on point. You want to talk about the controversial post that you did on IG where you make [inaudible 00:36:59], right? That was very controversial, but that created a conversation. So I'm curious, how do you do it? How do you know what to post? How do you know that this one will work?

Xia Xue:

I don't, because on Instagram, I post things but sometimes they don't work. Sometimes it's just ads. They're not that interesting. But sometimes you just hit jackpot.

Eric Feng:

15 years of hitting jackpot, is that a pattern?

Xia Xue:

I don't get that many amazing posts a year, you see? I post maybe 100 things a year and two are very popular. Sometimes-

Eric Feng:

What's the pattern, then? When you look at all those that work, generally what is the pattern? What do people like? You say lovey dovey stuff.

Xia Xue:

Humor.

Eric Feng:

Humor, okay.

Xia Xue:

I don't believe in lovey dovey. I think that doesn't give you true followers. People are not liking you for your personality, that they are not loyal fans. They are there because they like the photo. It's a very superficial like because they like seeing romantic ... It's makes them, "Aw." 

Eric Feng:

But it's not because of you.

Xia Xue:

But would they care to lend you money if you are fricking getting sued? They wouldn't give a (beep). The people who give a (beep) about that are people who read your deep thoughts and everything, and agree with you, and they truly support you. So I believe that kind of fan or follower is a lot more valuable. And I don't care about impressing people for likes. So that's why personally I don't like posting on Instagram. It's too superficial for me. It's not my thing. I much more enjoy posting on Stories because it can be ugly, it can be funny, it can be rude.

Eric Feng:

And real.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, so it feels a lot more like my normal, old days of blogging. Whereas Instagram is very curated. I understand that it needs to look nice for people to follow you, but not my thing.

Eric Feng:

So for you, you find that when you have a point of view, you say something that you care about even if you know that people might not believe it. But because it's authentic to you, you care about it, you put it out there, that to you is considered a good post?

Xia Xue:

I guess, yeah. A lot of failed posts also that people don't remember. Because I post on Instagram Stories all the time. So you remember, for example, [inaudible 00:39:03]. But maybe another time you don't care about it, right? Okay, so there is bingo like-

Eric Feng:

Could it be that you simply don't try too hard and that's why you bingo-

Xia Xue:

Maybe.

Eric Feng:

But for us it's [inaudible 00:39:13].

Xia Xue:

But eventually, as you grow older, you talk to a lot of people all the time, you can see sometimes people in their face, if you talk about finance they're like ... But if you talk about blowjobs, then you can see everyone wakes up.

Eric Feng:

That's something you know, for some topics.

Xia Xue:

Correct. So after a while you realize that, okay, certain things that I say, subconsciously you know that people will be interested in.

Eric Feng:

I got it. In other words, what we are saying is that at the beginning of us finding our voice, just talk more. Share more, everything that you want, throw everything out there and see what sticks, and see what there is.

Xia Xue:

You will be able to get feedback. It's so easy to get feedback nowadays.

Eric Feng:

Because your followers are your best teachers.

Xia Xue:

Correct. And to me it's not deliberate. This is not I have a notebook, I will do this or do this. I don't. It's just very subconscious. Because it's in our brains, you get a hit of dopamine every time you get a like or comment, then when there's interaction, it feels good. And your brain is addicted to it. So the next time I know when I post this thing. So yeah, I think it just comes very naturally, yeah.

Eric Feng:

Fantastic. So there are so many brands going out for you and flying you everywhere. What do you think is the reason why they engage you?

Xia Xue:

I would say that probably the ads are quite effective. Usually brands back to me and say that. And like-

Eric Feng:

Effective means what? It means like there's a lot-

Xia Xue:

It sells a lot.

Eric Feng:

They sell, okay. There are people, your followers do trust you. They do what you ask them to do. You are influential in that way.

Xia Xue:

In a way, I am influential.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, but why were they so filling to do what you ask them to do?

Xia Xue:

I think that over the years I've been very critical about pretentiousness, about being dishonest online. That's always my pet peeve, I really hate people who are online one way and then real life another way. Because to me, you must see that this blogging this is something that is very sacred to me because it is the core of who I am or who I'm known for, who am I. I'm just a pink haired girl walking on the street. So this to me is a very sacred thing.

            And I always felt like when you create content online, it should be authentic. And that's how I started out because I didn't have any ulterior motives because none-

Eric Feng:

You didn't even know you could make money on it.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, correct. So it was very pure and very beautiful, and I really hate it when people ... I can sense that somebody is there, doing this craft just because they want to earn money. 

Eric Feng:

Yeah. Or just to get likes.

Xia Xue:

So in a sense, maybe I'm like a porn star who loves filming videos because I love the art of it, but I see other persons doing it for money, and it just irritates me because I know they're not even enjoying the sex. They just hate it.

Eric Feng:

You want the art form.

Xia Xue:

Yeah. To me it's an art form. It's beautiful. It's my baby, right. So I always criticize people who are like that. So, for example, you remember [inaudible 00:42:08] controversy, part of it was that I said that, "How come these girls, they just get sponsored for an LG phone and then they say, 'Best phone ever,' but after that, one month later I can see you're still using an iPhone." I will criticize stuff like that. So I think over time it has cultivated an image for me where my followers always feel that I won't advertise for things that I don't like, because it's what I very strongly believe in and I always criticize.

            And I believe that over the course of 16 years, nobody has managed to find me advertising something that I genuinely just hate. Of course, over the years I always start to realize, even if I don't like Crocs, doesn't mean somebody else doesn't like it. It doesn't mean it's genuinely a bad product, it's just that I don't really like it. So I can factually still say these are very comfortable, good for doctors. I can still say these good things about Crocs, and I'm not lying because it's true. But I'll only be lying if I say, "This is my favorite footwear and I think it looks so nice," right? 

Eric Feng:

Yeah. And the worst things is, I see like one day you promote ... Not you, but some bloggers. Some Instragrammers will say, "Oh, this is the best food ever." And then the competitor will hire them. Then they say, "This is the best." You're best? Not very best anymore. Or your best is dependent on how much people pay you, and then that means that it's not very authentic.

Xia Xue:

Correct. And I think that followers are not that stupid, that they can sense that you're doing it for the money and it just really irks me. Yeah. So I think over the years, I think brands feel that ... they want that-

Eric Feng:

Honesty and authenticity. 

Xia Xue:

Yeah, so it's a little bit of a stamp of approval, that okay, she says it's good, that means it's good. Yeah. She's not one of those people who anyhow would say that it's good, because we pay her. Yeah, speaking of that, the food thing, a roast chicken company tried to pay me $13,000 to do a video and pretend it's not an ad, and compare them to other brands and say that theirs is the best. Then I just reject it. I'll say I'm not going to fucking do that.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, good.

Xia Xue:

$13,000.

Eric Feng:

$13,000 to eat a plate of roast chicken rice. Yeah, I always get very confused that food bloggers, for example, they get invited for food tasting. What if they taste it and the food is really legit not good for them. Do they post or do they not post? They're being paid.

Xia Xue:

Maybe they post less, I don't know. 

Eric Feng:

Yeah. So I find something is very difficult-

Xia Xue:

They really don't care. They just [inaudible 00:44:29].

Eric Feng:

Also, I learned something from you which is everything starts from passion first. Then even taking the money becomes a lot easier and more authentic. Because a very passionate brand, the brand knows that then they hire you, it's very authentic. You make money, yeah, you're talking about a brand that you like. But if money becomes your only focus, then you're just going after brands that are willing to give you money, then you always have to keep changing. Then at your core you're not being authentic. So I thought that was a good tip. Start from passion. That I learned from you.

            Now, you're really good at YouTube and Instagram. Some quick tips. People are taking note. What can we do in order to succeed on Instagram? Maybe start with that first.

Xia Xue:

Okay, I'm giving all these tips but, as I say, I'm not very passionate about Instagram. I don't really like Instagram that much. But these are the tips that work, I guess. People do giveaways, that will work. I don't like all these things because it feels very insulting my pure thing. 

Eric Feng:

The ultimate tip for you is just create good content that is authentic to you and you're passionate about.

Xia Xue:

It will no longer work in this era. It's very sad, but it's true. Giveaways are desperation. I don't like it. I'm getting too naggy about that thing. Being consistent with your content, always posting, and being able to identify what ... Okay, so Instagram page, IG Stories, people are very superficial. They like looking at pretty things, yeah. So good quality, good lighting and make your feed consistent and have a certain aesthetic. I felt that things with a very niche kind of vibe to it, it's very easy to get popular.

            So for example, if you do makeup, it's all purely makeup. Don't suddenly post your dog.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, unless you do dog makeup.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, okay. But keep it very consistent because what happens is if your tags and all that are only about makeup, then somebody who likes makeup will go on the popular page and click on the explore page. If you click on one makeup post, all makeup posts will come up. So it's all related posts will come up. So for example, if you like gay boys in gyms, then you click on that, then all the gay boys in gyms will come up. So it's very niche, yeah. So for people like me, because I'm very generic, it's very hard for me to pop up there and gain followers from explore.

Eric Feng:

So you've got to play by the algorithm of the platform?

Xia Xue:

Correct, yeah.

Eric Feng:

How about YouTube? Any tips for YouTube?

Xia Xue:

I think for YouTubers, just be very consistent in your content.

Eric Feng:

Consistent as in post often?

Xia Xue:

Post often, yeah.

Eric Feng:

And how often? It means once a week, everyday?

Xia Xue:

No, everyday is too constant. Only in those cases [crosstalk 00:47:11].

Eric Feng:

Oh, the daily bloggers.

Xia Xue:

That's really tough. Even once a week, to me, is very tough. So I post maybe two, three weeks one time, yeah.

Eric Feng:

Okay, so again, your consistent is not about daily or what, but if you're going to post every month, then make sure every month you post. Sometimes you've got a long pause on that last post, is that what you mean?

Xia Xue:

Yeah, we're going [inaudible 00:47:31] the things, it's like why are you even doing [inaudible 00:47:34].

Eric Feng:

[inaudible 00:47:37], if you're creating content out of passion on that topic, or out of passion of sharing to your followers, then it's always true. If you're posting because it's work, something is wrong.

Xia Xue:

Yeah. We cannot deny it's very important in today's life, so I understand why people-

Eric Feng:

Yeah, even as a professional we need to do it.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, I understand why people need to do it. But it's not something that I respect. It's like you're making a movie because you want movie, I do a movie because I like doing movies. It's a bit like-

Eric Feng:

That goes to show that at the end of the day, at the core of content creation is genuine care for the craft and genuine care for your followers. That should always be the reason.

Xia Xue:

But if you don't have it, you don't have it.

Eric Feng:

No, you don't have that, you shouldn't even be on it.

Xia Xue:

I disagree, because I feel like it's necessary and it does give you a lot of good things. So I can see why people want it.

Eric Feng:

Even if they're not authentic?

Xia Xue:

It's easy for me to say, "Why do you want so many followers, for what?" But it's very easy for me because I already have it. I have never not had it, and I have all the good things that come with it, right? And I will never understand how it feels. Okay, I can maybe understand if I go to a room full of 10 million followers, to feel insignificant because my following is so little. Or be less of an actual thought because my fellow actress has a lot more followers than me. Even though my craft may be better than her, I may be more passionate than her, but she might be higher because her numbers are higher.

Eric Feng:

So the numbers still [crosstalk 00:49:00].

Xia Xue:

So it still matters. It's unfortunate and I hate it, but it does matter.

Eric Feng:

Got it. So we've sometimes got to grit our teeth and play by the rules. 

Xia Xue:

Yeah, correct. So even those these tips that I give-

Eric Feng:

You roll your eyeballs at all the tips.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, not roll eyeballs. I'm just very sad that the reality is like that nowadays, and I just think it takes away from the beauty of creating content online.

Eric Feng:

How I look at it is be smart about it, play by the rules, but always put your signature on it. I hate oxygen, I die. But I might not like it, but I play by the rules. So I think that's what I'm hearing from you. Play by the rules of YouTube or Instagram. Instagram is pictures, YouTube is-

Xia Xue:

YouTube is-

Eric Feng:

How do you do it on YouTube? What kind of content?

Xia Xue:

Good videos. So you try to-

Eric Feng:

High quality videos?

Xia Xue:

Yeah, try to film videos that are ... They don't need to be super long. Good quality, yeah. Interesting. It's very difficult to say what is interesting. Sometimes weird things go viral as well. But yeah, as I said, just go and post the things that you like and you will start having a feel of what is good and what is not, what people like based on the amount of likes, based on the amount of dislikes and amount of comments.

Eric Feng:

Comments and engagement, got it. So the recap is post based on what you like, because when you're passionate about it, it's more sustainable, you'll post more often anyway, right? And then when you throw everything out there, you see what sticks. And you go, "Oh, this one sticks somehow. I'll post more of it."

Xia Xue:

My friends always tell me, like my influencer friends, they always say like my IG stories are too [inaudible 00:50:38].

Eric Feng:

What is [inaudible 00:50:38]?

Xia Xue:

[inaudible 00:50:39], like anyhow, do any ... Low quality. I really don't care. They will actually take a video, go home and put it in a nice frame, put some nice caption, or cut it and edit it. And I film, finish, post. 

Eric Feng:

That's your style?

Xia Xue:

I just do that. And I refuse to become like that, because it makes my IG stories become another Instagram, which I hate. So I want to love it. I want to be able to be happy when I post it. And it makes me stressed and have anxiety when I post on Instagram, because I know if it's a shit photo, I'll get very little likes. And that is very difficult not to feel affected. You would think that other the years it's like-

Eric Feng:

I'm surprised that you say that, that even if you get some less you get affected.

Xia Xue:

If it's significantly less, like let's say it's 10% of your usual, it's hard not to feel like, "What's wrong?" You know what I mean? 

Eric Feng:

Do you just need it or do you just leave it?

Xia Xue:

I won't delete it. I'll leave it be. But subconsciously I think some part of my brain will lodge that. "Maybe that was not a nice photo, I just don't post that sort of photo so often."

Eric Feng:

Okay, so you make a mental note?

Xia Xue:

Yeah.

Eric Feng:

Final question in the tactics segment, you live for your haters.

Xia Xue:

Yes.

Eric Feng:

If you see your Instagram bio, it says, "Bashing haters since 2003." So I thought that was cool. I know you're very fire about your haters, but not all of us are. One hater can cause us nightmares and we are very afraid of posting. I know of a lot of my followers who resit social media because they don't want to get flak, they don't want to get negative comments, even one of them. What advice do you have for them? How do you become braver?

Xia Xue:

At the end of the day, I think that these haters are really just losers. I have never met a hater who turned out to be a really successful and powerful person in life, or happy person. They're just angry losers. And it's just that, why are you affected by what these angry losers ... They're angry basement dwellers who don't know what the (beep) they're doing. They're angry at everything. I'm just like, "Oh my God, I feel so sorry for you that you are like that."

Eric Feng:

You can't fix them.

Xia Xue:

So it's just like-

Eric Feng:

Very nice. So we need to have a visual image of how these haters look like, and then we don't take their words too seriously.

Xia Xue:

Correct. They just hate everyone. They're just angry people. So it's like, don't need to bother about them. And I think you need to understand that if you have love, there will be hate. You want people to like you, you want to be popular, there will be people who hate you.

Eric Feng:

Yeah. There's a very zen saying that if you let compliments affect you, compliments and criticism are two sides of the same coin. If you embrace compliments then so do you have to embrace criticism. 

Xia Xue:

Yeah. But criticism always gets magnified. At last maybe 10 people a day tell me, "Oh, you're so pretty." But I literally hear none of it.

Eric Feng:

Yeah. But the bad one sticks in your head.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, I just see one one person who says, "You look fat in that photo," and I remember that. But I don't remember 100 people telling me I look so gorgeous. 

Eric Feng:

So how long you take to get over it before the next post comes?

Xia Xue:

I don't. I just get fired. I don't get upset. So for me, I don't know why. I don't know how to advice people how to do that, because my default reaction is to get angry and defensive.

Eric Feng:

Okay. And you protect it, but you say you get fired up as well to prove them wrong.

Xia Xue:

Sometimes I'll post, for example, now say I look very fat in that photo. I will just think you're very (beep) rude. Even if I am fat, it's none of your business. Why are you so rude? Your mother didn't bring you up properly, is it? I would just go and search their photo. You think you're skinny, now I'm going to post the photo-

Eric Feng:

To prove the point, and then it creates content.

Xia Xue:

Excuse me, do you like it when I say that you're fat? Right. So what would you say that to me, you're very rude. So I will be rude back. That's what I would do. I don't let go to my head and think like ... Okay, can you explain to me how normal people would react?

Eric Feng:

Normal people would probably not fight back. Normally people would then take that and like, "I'm fat, I'm fat, I'm fat, I'm fat." And then two points. Either they self-change it and go, "No, that's not true." Or they will do something about it, or they will really be very defeated. 

Xia Xue:

Huh?

Eric Feng:

But yours is the aggression method which is, "You say I'm fat? Let's see who is fatter." You turn it around, and the best part about you is that you don't just turn it around for your personal entertainment, but it became entertainment for everybody else as well. So I'm not saying-

Xia Xue:

But how come the focus is not how rude that (beep) is? I will just be like, "Huh? I want to see how skinny you are." Even people that are skinny, I'll be like, "Your [inaudible 00:55:18] are fatter."

Eric Feng:

Well, I feel it depends on your moral ground. Let's say you are born in the era where fat doesn't mean a lot, it's not a negative word, then fat is fatter. It's reality. So it depends on the person. But I feel that's the thing. Social media is so open, we cannot control what people say.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, and there are crazy people. Yeah.

Eric Feng:

And we can only control how we see it. I'm not saying you guys do exactly like her, but that's how she deals with it. Every negative comment that comes her way, she looks at it as a challenge, and that challenges fires her up and creates content. She also sees haters are just losers. So that minimizes the stink, in other words.

Xia Xue:

I also really like attention, so any form I will like. I'm like a bad dog, just pee on the ground and get scorned at, "You pay attention to me," and then you turn it around, and create a conversation and do a poll." 

Eric Feng:

So guys, that's Xia Xue for you, and if there's one thing I learned throughout this entire interview, it's about passion to the craft and being authentic to your values. And then when you put yourself out there with these two traits, the right followers will come to you and celebrate who you are.

Xia Xue:

Good summary.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, I really learned something. So thank you very much, Xia Xue. I really appreciate it. 

Xia Xue:

Thank you.

Eric Feng:

[crosstalk 00:56:28]. Thank you.

Xia Xue:

Thank you.

Eric Feng:

So Xia Xue, I have a lot of followers who are insurance agents, financial advisors, real estate agents, so it's important that they build their personal brand as well. What advice do you have for them?

Xia Xue:

Personal brand? I think for sales people, it's just in general you need to give off a feeling that you're not up to earn people's money, earn a commission off them. So I think that is the most important thing. 

Eric Feng:

The bottom line.

Xia Xue:

Yes. So you need to sell without really selling. Yeah. I don't know-

Eric Feng:

So don't talk about products. Don't keep calling about products.

Xia Xue:

Correct. Don't seem like your whole day is trying to get money. I feel like for me, for example, I think about our friend, Dennis [Ree 00:57:15].

Eric Feng:

Dennis, Ree.

Xia Xue:

He's a very famous real estate person, but he's also very well-known as, for example, being a foodie. So he judges food contests [inaudible 00:57:27]. So I think that gave him some fame as well, because he'd be on newspapers and stuff. And he, himself, cooks really well. So, when you see a famous person ... And cooking is not to do with me, so I don't feel defensive about it. Because when I see a real estate agent, I feel immediately a bit defensive. I feel like, "What are you trying to sell me?" [inaudible 00:57:47]. 

            When he's talking about how he loves food and all that, he's on newspapers, he becomes a famous person that is not known for selling things. And because he's famous, people trust famous people to not scam them. So I think in that sense, that really works for his personal brand because you know him, you trust him because you see how he's interact with [inaudible 00:58:11], or whatever. You see that side of him that you think he's a trustworthy person. Okay, he seems like a good person. Maybe when I buy a house, I'll think about him.

Eric Feng:

Got it. So it's about associations. Again, find something you're passionate about, have a voice about that and be really good at it, and then because people know you, like you and they respect you for that piece of knowledge, when they find out you're a real estate agent or you're a life insurance agent, by default I will transfer that trust to you.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, correct.

Eric Feng:

That's one angle, right?

Xia Xue:

Yeah. I just feel like it should never be just about how good you are as an agent or whatever, because people sense you've got an ulterior motive. 

Eric Feng:

One thing I teach my followers is add a creative slant to their boring topic. Insurance on its own and real estate on its own is a really well covered and very boring topic. When you say, if I talk about it many people are very defensive. But everyone comes to social media to be entertained. So if we can add a bit of the surprise, or intrigue, or the fun element to your topic, it becomes interesting. I have one follower who is very good at humor, he's very funny as a guy. 

            So I told him, why not put humor into your insurance posts? So he created memes and became very well-known. Another guy loved reading and drawing mind maps. He was very good at comic drawing, but mind maps. So I told him, read every finance book every written, ever published and then do mind maps of that, and do it on Instagram, because Instagram is about pictures.

Xia Xue:

So that becomes his niche.

Eric Feng:

Exactly, and then you still have your personal signature on it. So in other words, look for something that you're good at, you're talented in, or look at something that works outside of your vertical. You study photography, bloggers, or go and study all the other niches. Look at what they did to make themselves stand out, and ask yourself, "Can I put that into my own traditional ..." I call it a mashup.

Xia Xue:

I think it's very smart.

Eric Feng:

Yeah, because there is nothing new anymore. It's just creative adventure.

Xia Xue:

Because I feel like the guys doing memes is not trying to like-

Eric Feng:

I'm just out to make you laugh. I still have a point to make.

Xia Xue:

Yeah, and it makes you likable. So yeah, people will trust you.

Eric Feng:

Oh, I like your point. So guys, even if you do want to talk about insurance or real estate, it's okay. You've got to be authentic and find something you're passionate about, build your fame around that, your influence around that by transference, you can still do a good job. It has been so phenomenal spending time with you. I laughed a lot. I almost cried when you shared about [inaudible 01:00:29]. I learned so much about you. As a personality myself, I really take something off you, so thank you so much for taking time to share.

            She's very busy, okay. I had to book her many, many months in advance to do this. Thank you very much, guys. See you in the next episode of #HighlySoughtAfter.

Xia Xue:

See you.

Eric Feng:

Thank you so much for listening to the entire interview. I trust that it was valuable to you. Now, it would mean the world to me if you could write me a review. So who knows, your review may be featured in the very next episode, so what are you waiting for? Go, go. Write a review now. #HighlySoughtAfter.