33. How to raise $4.5 million from investors for your business or idea – Alan Phua

Are you an entrepreneur with a great idea, and you're hoping to win over your investors, customers and distributors? If so, you'll love this week's episode as my guest did just that

His name is Alan Phua, a food tech entrepreneur, and a CEO and Co-Founder of Alchemy Foodtech, a disruptive food and bio-tech start-up who is helping to make meals healthier without compromising on taste. Thus far, they've raised over $4.5 million from private investors and even Enterprise Singapore, a government agency. Within their first year of operation, Alchemy has served over 7.4 million meals and have established relationship with leading food brands, like Boon Tong Kee, the number one chicken brand in Singapore. Gardenia, the number one bread brand in Singapore, and Swee Heng, my favorite number one bakery in Singapore. So if you wanna learn how you can win over your investors, customers, and distributors, while impacting millions, you've got to pay special attention to this foodtech episode.

Also listen out for Alan's answers to the following questions:

• If you had to choose a food to describe yourself, which would you choose?-01:16
• What was the motivation behind doing what you do?-02:45
• The science behind Alchemy Foodtech?-05:25
• Why is sugar bad for us?-06:39
• What Alchemy Fibre does?- 08:09
• How did you feel when you discovered it?-09:30
• First tast of success getting the grant?- 12:56
• Selling a hunch?- 13:29
• Sugar free cake?!-16:51
• How do we know if our food has the Alchemy Fiber in it?-19:00
• Telltale signs to know for Diabetes?-20:51
• How did you pivot when you after the disaster of the planned launch due to covid?-23:54
• The loneliness of entrepreneurship?- 25:08
• How do you overcome doubters?-27:48
• Next big challenge and milestone?-33:12
• Advice to entrepreneurs?- 35:00

If you want to keep in touch with Alan, you can reach him on Instagram at @alchemyfoodtech and @alanphua

Read these books to become highly sought after in your own industry -> www.pickericsbrain.com

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Transcript

Alan Phua(Guest):

I think if you don't feel strongly about an idea you should give up because the truth is that I think with entrepreneurs in all verticals, you're gonna get a lot of nos. And even after you get your first yes, you're gonna get series no before you get your next yes. And we're still getting some nos now. And I believe for every single company out there is the same. So I think what keeps us going is really believing that this is the right thing to do. And for us going back to first principles, you know, people need this. And people really do want this and hence we are creating it and making it available. So I think tying this back also to ensure that you are working on a problem, that's huge enough. That can create you a big enough impact would then result in a compelling business case that's investable.

Eric Feng(Host):

Hi, this is Eric here and you are listening to #HighlySoughtAfter.Are you an entrepreneur with a great idea, and you're hoping to win over your investors, customers and distributors? If so, you'll love this week's episode as my guest did just that  

Eric Feng(Host):

His name is Alan Phua, a food tech entrepreneur, and a CEO and Co-Founder of Alchemy Foodtech, a disruptive food and bio-tech start-up who is helping to make meals healthier without compromising on taste. Thus far, they've raised over $4.5 million from private investors and even Enterprise Singapore, a government agency. Within their first year of operation, Alchemy has served over 7.4 million meals and have established relationship with leading food brands, like Boon Tong Kee, the number one chicken brand in Singapore. Gardenia, the number one bread brand in Singapore, and Swee Heng, my favorite number one bakery in Singapore. So if you wanna learn how you can win over your investors, customers, and distributors, while impacting millions, you've got to pay special attention to this foodtech episode. Thank you so much, hello. Good to see you.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Thanks for having me, Eric.

Eric Feng(Host):

And thanks for bringing some yummy food over today.

Alan Phua(Guest):

I hope you will like it later.

Eric Feng(Host):

Yeah, we're gonna do some food tasting. Now I have a question for you. You're in the food tech business, so why not let's start with this fun question, okay? If you can describe yourself using food, what would you describe? What food would you use?

Alan Phua(Guest):

My favorite food is chicken rice. I would definitely use chicken rice because it is the food that I miss the most when I travel. The first thing that I wanna eat when I come back. And it was also one of the first projects that I hope to work on. And really I think it's a comfort food of Singaporeans and I'm a typical Singaporean. And eating is our favorite pastime. So I think this really comes back to the whole essence of trying to empower people to still enjoy the food that they eat and that's...

Eric Feng(Host):

Very nice, I love the plugin. Well, those of you who are listening to us on podcast or you're watching us on YouTube, let us know in the comments section, especially if you're on YouTube, what is your favorite food. If you can describe yourself using food, what would you use? It'd be a very cool way to get to know you. So now I wanna check out your history. You founded Soyato with your wife. Soyato is essentially, you are helping to make sure that we're eating, dairy or ice cream.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So, the whole point of Soyato was to have a low-calorie ice cream because we love eating ice cream, but we didn't wanna grow fat.

Eric Feng(Host):

Okay, ice cream lovers please listen, all right? So you started with that. And then after that you went to Alchemy, and your job was to make sure that we enjoy eating our favorite food like bread, noodles, cakes, without the bad effects of it. So there seems to be a common trend here A common pattern, right? It's all our favorite food but yet they have harmful effects and you're helping to make it healthier for us. Why that motivation?

Alan Phua(Guest):

So for many fans I mean I'm a foodie at heart, so I love to eat but I don't want to die. And I don't wanna get cardio health or put on weight. And I realized that a lot of times the existing options out there are really painful choices. It's either you giving up favorite foods or you eating some substitute that doesn't satisfy you at all and then suddenly your life is not worth living. At least for me, you know, I live to eat.

Eric Feng(Host):

Yeah a lot of foodies will relate to you.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yeah, so if me staying well means me being miserable in other sense then it's not a perfect solution at all. And then for us, in the Alchemy story, there was a much closer reason, much closer to my heart reason why we got started on this. It's really because both my grandmothers, they passed away due to diabetes complications. And my mom have six siblings. Five of them are diabetic. Type 2 diabetic. So growing up I had a lot of personal experiences watching people struggle to stay healthy by staying away from their favorite foods. And one particular experience that really stuck with me all these years, is my aunt. Once she was supposed to go to her doctor's and have her blood drawn to measure her blood sugar levels. She basically lied flat out to the doctors, and said that, Oh I have a phobia for needles. Can I give you my urine samples instead? So she went to the washroom she diluted her urine samples with water, just to cheat the test and the sort of result don't look like the condition is getting out of control. And then, so we'll leave her alone to still eat her favorite white rice, drink her sugared coffee and things like that. But cheating on a test is a short term thing all right. You know, the complications are always gonna come back. But that left a very imprint in me that it's extremely difficult for people to do the right thing in terms of staying away from their favorite foods, even though nobody wants to be sick. And when it comes to things like diabetes, the complications are really dire. You're talking about amputation, kidney failure, blindness, things that nobody will ever want to have. Every single day, every single meal, giving her her favorite food? Extremely difficult. So, that's why we felt, since we have a background in food technology, my wife and co-founder, she's a food scientist by training. So we were thinking why don't we use this domain knowledge to create a solution so that people can still enjoy their favorite foods but in a safe manner. They don't get any health implications.

Eric Feng(Host):

You know, I feel that we're just only about three minutes in the interview. You have already won everyone listening to you obviously you have won me. The standard health advice that people always give you is to restrain. Is to cut, right? But it's very difficult to change old habits. It's the same thing with cigarettes. We know that cigarettes are bad for us but it's very difficult to cut it. So first of all on behalf of everybody listening and watching. And we wanna thank you for making it possible for us to enjoy our food. So let's go to the science of it first, shall we? And then after that, we go into the marketing and investing. How did you first come about it? Okay, you kind of had a motivation, but was it difficult to find a formula to be able to allow us to enjoy rice?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yeah, so it started with a mission to want to make staple foods healthier. But before that, there were a lot of approaches they can do it, for example, you can go into biotechnology, you can go into hybridization or gene editing of crops to maybe grow healthier rice. But then we did a scope, mainly Verleen my co-founder, the CTO. So we did a scope of the land, we were thinking about the various approaches that we can do this. Of course, if you were to go into biotechnology, you might end up with a rice that's healthier, but what we found was that one of the bio makeup it's a little bit analytical. It's what we call the amylose-amylopectin ratio. So when you try to reduce the glycemic index of rice through biotechnology, you will always end up changing the taste and the texture of the rice. This was a very strong conclusion. And there was a flat out, no. The final solution should still preserve the taste of the food, because otherwise there will be no adoption.

Eric Feng(Host):

So, I'm gonna ask you a very newb question. I heard about, us reducing sugar. Actually, a lot of issues that happen, is because we have too much sugar. Can you share the science behind it? Why is sugar bad for us?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yeah, so sugar in high glycemic index foods chart basically refers to glucose that's being released from the food. And when this glucose enters our bloodstream and we don't carry all the sugar fast enough, it increases the viscosity of the blood. So the blood doesn't flow as smoothly in our vessels. So over a long period of time, it can lead to a toxin deposit and over a super long period of time, we are talking about decades down the road, it's gonna lead to clots. And then that's why a lot of diabetic patients they start to go blind because the clot happens in the eye. When it happens in the toes, some of them go for amputation and then there other implications like a stroke as well. So, which is why it's extremely important for everybody to regulate their blood sugar levels, whether you're a healthy individual or already diabetic.

Eric Feng(Host):

Got it so a lot of food that we eat, like formally ice cream or cakes or even the standard rice and noodles, which is carbs, right?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng(Host):

All that has glucose or it releases sugar.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Correct.

Eric Feng(Host):

And high amount of sugar in our blood.

Alan Phua(Guest):

That is correct. And actually what we have also realized because we do have our consulting endocrinologist that helps us with our work. Is that our body needs glucose, our brain feeds primarily on glucose, all our cells require glucose to function, but what our bodies can't handle is the sudden influx of glucose. So while regulating it, the release of the glucose from the food so that we get enough to get by for the cells to function. But we give our body more time to get rid of the glucose.

Eric Feng(Host):

And is that what Alchemy Fibre does?

Alan Phua(Host):

Exactly, yeah.

Eric Feng(Host):

So Alchemy Fiber doesn't remove the glucose release.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yeah, it slows it down, yes.

Eric Feng(Host):

I see.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Because again, coming from the advice that we sought from the clinicians, they were saying that, if you don't have enough glucose in your system, you're gonna need hypoglycemia, you can faint.

Eric Feng(Host):

Yeah, because it's energy source, right?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Exactly, you need the energy. We just can't deal with a sudden influx.

Eric Feng(Host):

I see, oh thank you. I studied computing I have no idea about foodtech. Got it, so now we understand how it works. So let me recap. So number one is, all these foods produce sugar in our bloodstream. And the reason why sugar is bad it's not because sugar is bad, but it's because the high influx of sugar is what causes a lot of problems for us. So if you can slowly release that sugar in our bloodstream, then actually we can enjoy all this food. And a lot of options that is available back then, during your time, requires modification of taste or texture. Right, but if we're gonna... That's the reason why some of us don't like brown rice, right? Because it looks different.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Actually 92%

Eric Feng(Host):

Now, wait, what did you just say?

Alan Phua(Guest):

92% of people refuse to eat brown rice.

Eric Feng(Host):

Yeah, because number one, it's brown, number two, the texture. It's like eating sand paper, you know, it's just rough.

Alan Phua(Guest):

It's very rough.

Eric Feng(Host):

Yeah, so I get it now. So when you came up, when your wife and you came up with this idea, and you make it work. How did you feel when you first discovered it? Did you, like shout out, Eureka!

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yeah, so it was a discovery and the research process was three years.

Eric Feng(Host):

Ooh!

Alan Phua(Guest):

So we researched a lot into different types of fibers that we get from different plant crops, from corn, pea, legumes, tapioca, all kind of different plant crops. We research a lot into the characteristics of each fiber. And then we realized that we have to form a fiber blend. It cannot be just one source of fiber, in order to deliver both the nutrition taste and also to slow down the GI of the product. And then when we first discovered it, we still had the hunch, where in the lab, it shows that it works but the truth is really in the pudding where you have these tested in human body. So we have already done to date, five rounds of human clinical studies. So basically we give them rice and then we measure blood sugar. We give them rice with Alchemy Fiber and measured the blood sugar, over two days. And it was consistently showing that, where you have rice with Alchemy Fiber, it elicits a slower glucose response.

Eric Feng(Host):
 
And they didn't even know that that was rice with the Alchemy Fiber.

Alan Phua(Guest):

And that was when we'd known for sure we have something that works.

 Eric Feng(Host):
Okay now, so we kind of speed up really but let's slow it down a little bit. So when you first came out, when you thought about this idea. How do you end up having a lab, even to do all these experiment? Don't you need some funding?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yeah, we needed funding. We didn't build our own lab, even when we got first round funding. So our first round of funding, came from the Singapore government. It was a technology research grant called Technology Enterprise Commercialization Schemes, a real mouthful.

Eric Feng(Host):

is money. Money from the government to help you create this tech.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Today as we name it as Startup SG Tech grant. So it's a highly competitive deep tech research grant. Criteria is that it has to be deep tech. It has to have potential to go really big internationally. So we show that diabetes global problem. And, by the way, a little bit of background about diabetes problem. Today, there are more diabetic patients than active Amazon users.

Eric Feng(Host):

Can you repeat that?

Alan Phua(Guest):

There are more diabetic patients in the world today than active Amazon users, and you think Amazon has a lot of users, which is true, that's even more diabetics.

Eric Feng(Host):

Oh, wow!

Alan Phua(Guest):

And then there are poor people who are about to become diabetic, which is called the pre diabetics. And then the other regular people that we have to protect to ensure they don't join that pool. So this mission is very big and hence when we pitched for the grant, we presented these facts, it became overwhelming obvious that this is a project that we should work on. And even though it was a very competitive grant, only about seven to eight companies receive on a yearly basis. And this is not only open to start-ups, it is open to companies of all sizes and an age.

Eric Feng(Host):

Who wants to do some research.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Exactly and it has to be deep tech. So we were funded initially under the grant. We chose not to build our own lab, because it's the fastest way to burn through the money.

Eric Feng(Host):

Yes.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So we rented the lab in the National University of Singapore, NUS.

Eric Feng(Host):

Okay first of all, I didn't even know you can rent a lab, that's very cool to know that.

Alan Phua(Guest):

It's not publicly offered as a service. It's just as an alumni. My partner, Verleen, she's an alumni. So, we have a good relationship with them and they are very very helpful and supportive. So we asked can we rent, because otherwise we have no money to build one. And then we also had some professors work on the project. We have some FIP students we should pay for our grant. So we can stretch the research dollars.

Eric Feng(Host):

So let's go back to the foot, the emotion, I remember we talk about it, Eureka moment. So when you and your wife realize that this is something really cool, obviously it was only a hypothesis, right. And so you pitched the idea and you've got a fund, you're one of the seven or eight companies that got it. How do you feel you and your wife? How do you all feel when you've got the yes?

Alan Phua(Guest):

We felt really, really thankful. Especially for deep tech startups at the very first stage, you have a hunch of something that might change the world but you don't have the proof.

Eric Feng(Host):

It's just a hunch.

Alan Phua(Guest):

It's just a hunch, exactly. So it's a very difficult proposition to sell to private investors. If you go to an investor and say, look, I have idea it can solve and change the lives of millions, but I'm not sure whether it works, giving you money.

Eric Feng(Host):

It's a sharp thing, a hunch.

Alan Phua(Guest):

It's like, I have a hunch that's it. I have no proof. I cannot guarantee you, it works. Can you give me some money? It's gonna be a very hard sell.

Eric Feng(Host):

So tell us, how do you manage to sell a hunch?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yeah, so by the time we got to the pitch. For the grant, we already had our first prototype that was done up. So people eating, the prototypes. So we had these experiments done at home, and it was based on literature research. This is the idea that possibly could work. We do not know, we need funds to do the research, but at least in terms of testing, in terms of the physical samples, we have really managed to produce it. So you can taste it to believe it. But if you can prove the clinical efficacy and we can skew our production, for sure, you can see...

Eric Feng(Host):

So you already had a working prototype, actually your wife was able to create something to create a fiber.

Alan(Guest):

I wouldn't call you a working prototype then but it was a first draft of a prototype because we still had to prove that it works.

Eric Feng(Host):

Back then, when you did it, there was no impact to the taste, it tastes the same.

 Alan Phua(Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng(Host):

And yet it was able to slow down the glucose release.

Alan Phua(Guest):

That was what we believed, based on the literature research that we have done and what we use to formulate in our product. But again, the truth is when you really conduct clinical studies, which is what we needed the grant for.

Eric Feng(Host):

Got it. So the way you sell it was, number one, there's a very big problem that you can solve. Number two is that, there was a little bit of tasting because I think the biggest objection back then was, is it gonna affect the taste?

Alan Phua(Guest): 

Yes. And also whether it works. So many big questions to answer the taste at least is upfront trait, you can know for sure. And then the clinical part is where we needed to fund as well as the time.

Eric Feng(Host):

Got it. And then of course you did a smaller version of it and you just need it to scale. So very good. And I'm asking you this question, because there are a lot of entrepreneurs listening to this episode, and obviously we have a lot of ideas, but the question is, are we able to interest an investor to listen to us? So what I'm hearing from you is, if we sell them a big enough a problem, exciting enough a problem to solve. You will be able to attract their resources. And obviously, hopefully a prototype.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng(Host):

Okay, good. So were you happy when you got that, yes?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Very, very happy because I truly believe that you become something big because people love to hear, right. The concept of tasty hottie carbs is a no-brainer.

Eric Feng(Host):

Yeah.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Even at the very go I strongly believed it was gonna be a no-brainer, but it was really about making it happen that was the question mark, and we need funds to make it happen. So when we had the first major, a believer and a patriot, which is the Singapore government through Enterprise Singapore Really, really happy.

Eric Feng(Host):

Sometimes you just need a believer. So tell us a little bit about where has Alchemy Fibre, which is that fiber you created, that allow our carbs to release sugar slowly, but yet it tastes good, right? Where has it been that?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yeah, so right now this is being served in major restaurant brands. So I think you've mentioned the likes of Boon Tong Kee the largest chicken rice chain store in Singapore. Right now, they serve in every outlet, every single serving. So it's a default, in fact, you can even pop up. It's the same in other restaurants like Oyuki especially that rice chain store all the outlets and all the servings.

Eric Feng(Host):

Chicken rice, dark rice, Gardenia bread, noodles.

Alan Phua(Guest):

We have restaurant partners such as Dumpling Darlings that mix ramen, with Alchemy Fiber. So give you the same great taste, but we have other sugar shock to the system. So basically anything carbs.

Eric Feng(Host):

And today in our studio, Alan had brought something really interesting. Tell us about you brought.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So today I brought one of our partner products, which is a sugar-free Chiffon cake from Swee Heng.

Eric Feng(Host):

Okay guys, just listen. Do you hear what he just said? He said, sugar-free cake. It's like, cake sugar-free, who will eat it?

Alan Phua(Guest):

For a long time we know that sugar-free cakes is a major fantasy. And now one of our various people, is just their any one skill in baking? We'll also know that when you remove sugar from cake and you replace it with sweetness, you're gonna end up with problems. The cake is gonna become dryer. So the texture is affected. And a lot of times the kid might collapse, the structure will not...

Eric Feng(Host):

Visually the structure will work without sugar. But I'm a consumer. I just care about whether cake tastes good, right?

Alan Phua(Guest):
 
Exactly.

Eric Feng(Host):

So, right now I have an orange. Let me just go back to the microphone. I have orange chiffon cake. So those of you on a camera, you can see orange chiffon cake. You see, it's not collapsing. It looks like a very normal chiffon cake but what's very interesting, it says there, no sugar. So we're gonna taste it. It's sweet.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So it still tastes like the regular chiffon cake. And then the texture is too soft. It's still moist. Even though it has no sugar in it.

Eric Feng(Host):

No sugar.

Alan Phua(Guest):

It has no sugar in it.

Eric Feng(Host):

Okay, guys I swear to you this is not a sponsored interview. I love sweet stuff and anybody who knows me, I like sweet stuff. Recently, I just had a cheesecake on my own. Whole big cheesecake on my own. Oh my God, it's so dangerous. Alan just roll his eyes on me. I haven't said this, orange chiffon cake taste really sweet. Like a normal cake, but there's no sugar in it. But it's because he added some magic additive Alchemy Fiber.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So, this is a major ingredient, of course, it's called Alchemy Fiber. We develop a special blend that's used in cakes. And what's special about this blend is that it also empowers the cake to be made with natural sweetness. In this case, we use maltitol. Instead of regular sugar that will spike your blood sugar levels. And the key thing that made it really challenging for any bakers who try to use it is again the taste and the texture. So we have made that happen with Swee Heng.

Eric Feng(Host):

This is so cool guys. It is in Singapore for now. Those of you listening to us because we are in five other countries, but at least for my Singapore listeners. How do we know if our food has the Alchemy Fiber in it?

Alan Phua(Guest):

So if you were to say a one of our restaurant partners, you will see our logo, a heart shape it says maybe Alchemy Fiber on the menus and then some rice, there's also posters like for Swee Heng they're bakery. So they have a label on the packaging. As you can see the red heart on the label.

Eric Feng(Host):

Made with Alchemy Fibre and it says low GI. High fiber, high prebiotics. Wow, same great taste.

Alan Phua(Guest):

In a way you can look at us like an Intel insight, to many of these food brands. Just that we powered their products to be healthier, but without changing their taste.

Eric Feng(Host):

I love that. That will be a great way to introduce yourself in future. Like, we make you enjoy the food, without the bad effects of it. Without changing the taste.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So that's all that we do. Or the essence of what we do.

Eric Feng(Host):

Okay, before we go into the marketing part. We're still on science. You shocked me by saying that there is more diabetic patients than Amazon users. So we don't talk about those people. But you said that there were a lot of pre diabetic patients. People like us. And I remember in an interview you said that these people are getting younger and younger because I used to think that diabetes is for old people. Is that still true?

Alan Phua(Guest):

They still make out above of the population, but the fastest growing brand, the people who are between 30 to 40 years old which is basically us. And the dangerous thing about diabetes is that at the initial phase, you don't really experience anything. So that's why it has caught a lot of people by surprise. If you go for regular checkups, that's where the reflex might come. But if you don't, you're probably gonna get a diabetic stage where you first discovered that you have it.

Eric Feng(Host):

The checkup you're talking about the blood sugar. The doctor tell you about your blood sugar. Are there any other telltale signs, besides us going for a medical checkup, which we should. Are there any other telltale signs to know?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Some other common telltale signs of diabetes include things like, frequent urination. So why that happens is because your body is trying to frantically get rid of the glucose, that's all stuck in your blood. And then there are other telltale signs as well, like chronic fatigue. If you feel tired the entire time, it could mean that you have...

Eric Feng(Host):

Even if you sleep enough.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Even when you sleep enough. Also if you start to notice that your wounds don't heal or clot as quickly as before it probably might mean that you have diabetes. It doesn't immediately mean that you are diabetic, but you it's one of those reflects.

Eric Feng(Host):

Possible reflect.

Alan Phua(Guest):

But when it gets to that stage, that kind of symptoms, you're pretty much diabetic.

Eric Feng(Host):

And of course if you are a carbs person. Like if you are a carbs or dessert person, like I'm a rice person, I love noodles, I love cakes and sweet stuff. I think that's something we need to take them off. Well thanks for that, man. Thanks Alan. Well, this is amazing. You're the first food tech entrepreneur I've ever interviewed. And it's very cool that your success isn't just about you making more money but your success actually allows us to be healthier. I could at most say that your success is our miracle.

Alan Phua(Guest):

I mean, for us our a mission driven start-up. The whole point is to create impact in people's health and have started enjoying better health. They've written several testimonials. I think the business performance is more like a by-product if we do well financially it's because we have done enough impact.

Eric Feng(Host):

Exactly, I always believed that, the money that you make is the market's feedback of your value. If you're making a lot of money, it means that the market believes that you're giving them a lot of value. So if you wanna make more money, give more value. Now let's go to marketing. Well, you had an awesome product. You took about three years. Incubating and doing research. And when you officially started to roll it out to the public.

Alan Phua(Guest):

We only roll out our products in 2020. That was last year, so it's only...

Eric Feng(Host):

But it was the pandemic year. Was that a positive thing for you or a negative thing for you?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Extremely challenging.

Eric Feng(Host):

Tell us all about it.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So our first wave of rollout was meant to be the restaurant partners and it still is. Because I think through restaurant partners, there's a lot of opportunities, when it's on the menus. And then also when restaurants tend to have a shorter turnaround time, so it's easier to roll speed to market. And then with we have restaurants ability to raw many different dishes from rice-based ones to noodle-based items. So there's a lot of storytelling opportunities. So that's what we chose. So we originally wanted to have official launch in may of last year. And if you recall me, last year was in the middle of the break out. So we had it all planned since January and February. We had the venue plan. We had restaurant partners plan, minister was secure, everything was done, even the press was secure. Three months in advance that we're gonna have these events are coming to cover. Everyone's RSVP, we're gonna come and talk about this great, product launch. And then COVID hit, right? And then at a point in time a lot of our restaurant partners were full service guys that dependent quite heavily on tourism. And as far as events. So when COVID happened, they're in this area and when it hits our clients, we are hit. So all of a sudden we had to pivot. We started to think, okay, food is something you have to eat no matter what, even when we have a pandemic you got to eat. But maybe at a different place, or maybe you buy a different type of food. So that we had to pivot. And look for clients in the restaurant scene, in a food service, whose food tends to travel well. So people are more inclined to order. Casual dining as well, because I think people are still willing to spend on casual dining. Fine dining I think it depends. Some people feel they still you want to pay the amount only when to get to enjoy the ambiance. But the more clear cut prospects to go after will be those that are going for mass premium for the travel as well. And hence we had to suddenly overnight pivot our strategy and who we prioritize our key partnerships.

Eric Feng(Host):

And that's how the bread thing came about, right? Cause bread travels well. Is that how you feel came about?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Cake travels well, chicken rice travels well for sure. Black rice as well. So a lot of these items, the daily food items. Was what we ended up concentrating on.

Eric Feng(Host):

Ah, that's so freaking cool. Got it, so that's how it happens. I remember you mentioned before, we chatted about it, that as an entrepreneur, you can almost say that it can be quite a lonely journey. And do you think so? Even though you brought so much joy to people but has it been a very lonely journey and on his LinkedIn, he actually wrote, he's a CEO, which is chief of everything officer.

Alan Phua(Guest):

It still skews that way.

Eric Feng(Host):

Means do everything.

Alan Phua(Host):

Well, the team has expanded just . It did not do it four months ago it was like, maybe six of us now is 18 of us. Next year I think it will be 25. So within the space of like two years or two plus years, the team has grown like four to five folks. So even then you still have a very tight team, so many people asked you across are multitasking. But I think entrepreneurs someday will feel some degree of loneliness, I believe. I think at the start, the loneliness was the highest, also because you have this great idea, you have this great passion, you want to get started but not many people believe in you yet.

Eric Feng(Host):

Was it true? I mean, I thought you were a first hit? You hit it, It didn't go right at the beginning.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So we had a support from the Singapore government, but when the private sector side, it was very challenging. So if we backtrack to the stage where we were trying to prove this technology, we've got the grant, we pass the clinical studies, proven that it worked. We went to pitch to private investors and many of them were skeptical. Also because at a point in time, food tech was not an So when we say introduce ourselves as a food tech startup, they said, oh, so you have a website to order food. So there was a general misconception or misunderstanding of what food tech is. And then some of them felt that, food that's not tacky, tastes good yourself. You know, that's not tech. So it was only after a while that they really understood it. And when we pitched the story on diabetes as a key problem, we have a solution for it. There are also some investors who are not so well-versed with the problem. Some thought that we were making up the problem. They don't believe that diabetes is such a big problem. Even though our statistic came from like the International Diabetes Federation. All those are validated facts.

Eric Feng(Host):

And they don't believe.

Alan Phua(Guest):

And then some of them feel that, this will resign in a product is slightly more expensive. You know what, only the rich people will be able to afford and rich people don't eat rice. There's a lot of things that we felt were not justified reasons. But skepticism is something that comes to all early stage entrepreneurs. So at a point in time, very lonely, you don't feel that nobody believes in you, your team is very small, it's basically just you and your co-founder. What are you gonna do. You know you have this idea, you know that when you invest this skills, it creates impact for people. But right now, day one, nobody believes in you, what happens.

Eric Feng(Host):

How do you overcome that?

Alan Phua(Guest):

So we pivot the event our pitch at a point in time in our first round off VC funding, we pitched this as a healthcare startup because we are bringing about better blood sugar levels. And if all the patients for the regular people who are trying to prevent diabetes. So this is indeed a healthcare startup at a substation and if we could fund it because of that. So I think one of the key skills, I think all entrepreneurs need to have is to be able to pivot a situation be it COVID or be it that your vertical could be early but there are other ways to sell this product. We still have to do it. And then when we got funded, we then continued our development work and more into applications that where we really get this into everyday foods that rice, the chicken rice, especially in the cooking, the cakes, which cate, chiffon cake, different sponge cake, even on a brioche versus your regular loaf bread, all those are different. So we then spend the money to do a lot of this audit application research and got all the samples done. And then very excited, we brought this to the industry. We share it with partners. And then the partners, all look at us like, you know, you guys look very young in the food industry this thing You know, how do we know it's safe? When you say it works, how do we know? And then we had the short end and we were funded by the Singapore Government. Ministers like PM Ali as well as a he has spoken about this. Clinical studies obviously show that it works. We have also gotten our patents granted to date and by now we have gotten about 17 countries granted already. And then there are already many other brands that have interest to want to get started. But a lot of this is getting to the first yes. That's extremely challenging. So where we've got those challenges and questions you can feel that the gate will completely shut. So bit by bit we got to find out why their concerns, do you think it's safe, okay these are the stats. Do we think it was this clinical studies? who else is backing you by the government? Do my customers really want this? We we're shown a statistic that rice in particular volume has been falling. Even though people love eating rice. And it's really because people are getting concerned.

Eric Feng(Host):

Because of the healthcare advice that people say that rice is bad, so eat less. But actually we want to eat.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Yeah, we wanna eat. And what we always find is that people stay off rice for maybe three weeks, one month, maximum two months, by the time they're back. So it's not a sustainable solution to get people to cut completely.

Eric Feng(Host):

So what I'm hearing from you is that you had a very big win with the Singapore government, the Singapore Enterprise. That was you're big win that got you started. But then after that, it was a series of nos, your round one investing was a no and then...

Alan Phua(Guest):

And then we pivoted the pitch and then it was a yes. And moved closer to the market and then no from the market again. And then we pivot and we the tried to get some trust once we get a first bit yes. Then you get a second big yes and then a third one.

Eric Feng(Host):

So the question is, how do we persevere through all the nos until we get a yes. Remember there's this picture of these two guys digging gold and then one of them was so close to hitting gold but he gave up because he hit nothing for a long time.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Anytime that I feel discouraged, I always go back to, what many people call the first principles, the absolute truth of life and universe. The absolute truth is that diabetes problem exists. People want tasty, healthy foods. There's no good solution. That's the first principle that always kept me going because we already have developed a solution. It's about making people, the partners see that this is a calling that people are already calling for it. You may not know about it because they may not go up to your face and tell you, they came here for healthier. But when you start seeing the rice volume fall, when you start seeing people signing up for gyms. When people start talking about, what they're putting into their bodies, you know, that a health trend is there. It's very, very strong. So I think it's about also making your point visible to be more convincing to your partners. And then eventually they will see that there's reasons for them to take on this product.

Eric Feng(Host):

So two things I'm learning from you. So number one is whenever we get our nos, we always go back to first principles. Or we go back to the, why we're doing this. I think there was one famous guy who said that, What's his name, Simon Sinek. He says about the why. So there's a saying, When the why is big enough, you figure out the what and the how.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Exactly, so we started from why.

Eric Feng(Host):

And the second one is to look at every objection as a pitch objective. If people telling me that, oh, I don't think the food is gonna taste good. Then that becomes my objective, I'm gonna prove to you that my food is gonna taste equally good.

Alan Phua(Guest):

And I think that at the end of the day, everybody wants something. The young consumer wants to enjoy food but escape the guilt and the health implications. Whereas the B2B partners, they want to boost their business. So we also learned that, you know through our work, we follow B2B partners. So other than telling them that your consumers want these we have to also go through the matrix with them often. When you use this, how much more volume you're gonna get, how much more business you're gonna get, you're gonna get stronger recall. You're gonna get increasing margins and volumes. It makes sense for you to do it. And then on the PR side of things, you look like a brand that cares for your customers.

Eric Feng(Host):

Very well said. There's a saying, To sell Jindo you need to first see from the eyes of Jindo. And so learning how to see from the eyes of your different stakeholders, help you make your pitch a lot more convincing. Can I ask like, it has been what, five years?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Five years now, yeah. Oh, six years actually.

Eric Feng(Host):

Turning six soon?

Alan Phua(Guest):

No, we turned the six in October.

Eric Feng(Host):

Huh, that's already six years!

Alan Phua(Guest):

So six years and two months now.

Eric Feng(Host):

It felt like a while, because I know you're new to Stanley so I've only known you this year so it felt like it was just a while ago. What do you think is your next big challenge and milestone?

Alan Phua(Guest):

I think our next big challenge is to onboard the truly international brands and we already have those in our pipelines. Some of the pipeline partners we have are true MNCs, probably the companies. So what can we do then it's a whole new dimension because there's a lot of great tips. And then every product that they decided to roll out is a multi geographies. So I think there's always a lot considerations. Then there's a lot of checks that they do conduct on their partners before they take on any new projects. So in terms of fast, getting a brand work, the production capacity, the qualities, all those things we already have having them in place. So for example, we just got ISO certified. Of course we are Halal certified. SFA all those things we have really gotten the brand work done. So I think that's the next wave of our challenge. And also to expand our application into more food categories. Cause right now we focus everything carb. So staples is our number one game. But we have also developed application for other foods. So for example, it was recently announced in the press that we have developed a bubble tea pearl.

Eric Feng(Host):

Huh!

Eric Feng(Host):

That's Alchemy Fibre. So it has the ability to increase the fiber content intake for you in a drink. And then it can also potentially slow down the sugar release from the sugar drinks.

Eric Feng(Host):

I tell you, everybody's gonna love you. You're gonna be every foodies' best friend. Cause you're just make all your favorite foot healthy.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So that you can consume and have a peace of mind.

Eric Feng(Host):

My last question for you. Obviously you had a great idea and you had a support of the government and you have grit and persistence and you have a very strong, compelling backstory of why you wanna do this. Even if no one support you, you will still do it because you had a very big why. I can see that in your eyes. So you'll find a way. There a lot of entrepreneurs who may not have the great idea you may not have an idea that can save lives or change the world. What do you have to say about them when they go out there pitched those ideas that might not be the best should they just give up because the ideas are not good or?

Alan Phua(Guest):

I think if you don't feel strongly about an idea you should give up because the truth is that I think with entrepreneurs in all verticals, you're gonna get a lot of nos. And even after you get your first yes, you're gonna get series no before you get your next yes. And we're still getting some nos now. And I believe for every single company out there is the same. So I think what keeps us going is really believing that this is the right thing to do. And for us going back to first principles, you know, people need this. And people really do want this and hence we are creating it and making it available. So I think tying this back also to ensure that you are working on a problem, that's huge enough. That can create you a big enough impact would then result in a compelling business case that's investable.

Eric Feng(Host):

You have a very good point. I remember going for a business networking event before and there were a lot of young people saying, I wanna be an entrepreneur cause nowadays it's very cool to be an entrepreneur. Everyone wants to be an entrepreneur, but we do not have a great idea. And this very established entrepreneurial said that if you wanna find a great idea, first find a big enough problem that you are excited to solve and that you have the resources and capabilities of solve. And then when you combine that together, then you have an idea, a good enough investible idea.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Try to solve big problems, you'll get a lot more help. That is very true because...

Eric Feng(Host):

Say that again.

Alan Phua(Guest):

When you solve big problems, you have more help from NGOs, from the governments. You have more opportunities to get funding from private sector because there's more impact to be driven. And once you deliver the impact, the profits come. When you solve a small problem, there's not enough people who care. You're not gonna get help, you're alone.

Eric Feng(Host):

This is very important to me because a few years ago I was plateauing and I was just wondering like, what's going on, why am I not excited anymore about what I do and I don't seem to be able to get attention that I want. And someone said that to me as well. He said to me that, you need to start stepping up and to solve bigger problems because the minute you open your mouth and if let's say you say, oh, my goal is to be a person of influence to grow my TikTok following, let's say. That's not my goal, by the way. Who's gonna help you?

Alan Phua(Guest):

Who cares, right?

Eric Feng(Host):

Who cares about you being famous. So you're not gonna attract smart people to you. Because smart, talented people wanna work for a cause. They wanna work for meaningful things. Do you know Tesla is not the only company that does the energy cars.

Alan Phua(Guest):

They're are not the first either.

Eric Feng(Host):

But guess what? The bestest, there's no such thing as bestest. But the best engineers, the smartest, most talented engineers want to work for him. Elon Musk. Why? Not because Elon Musk, but because of Elon Musk's goal and vision and wanting to colonized Mars. It's exciting enough, it doesn't matter if you achieve it. But if I wanna do something my myself, do something big.

Alan Phua(Guest):

So today in our team of hires like permanent staff, we have people who are ex Nestle's and where people who are people have coming in for all walks of life. And the board of advisors, we have ex MD for Kellogg's, for example. So why do these people spend time with advisors? Not for the money, they already have enough money. So they are doing this really because they realize there's a strong need. That's gonna be a tremendous impact to be achieved. Once we rolled this out at a big scale. So that's primarily what drives them. Otherwise, these are people who can retire but they're spending time with us because they believe in the mission.

Eric Feng(Host):

Alan this is beautiful. And I actually truly deeply wish you success. And I hope to see your heart, the big red heart that says Alchemy Fiber in everything that we like to eat. All right, so guys, you know what? I got this crazy idea. Those of you listening to podcasts, go watch the YouTube video instead. Those of you watching on YouTube, put down your favorite food. As I asked you right at the beginning of this episode, and please Alan, go have a look at all their favorite food and please do something about it. And I don't know what you do, but just at your Alchemy magic into those food, make it taste equally good, if not better but it'll make them healthy. Could you do that for us?

Alan Phua(Guest):

That's all we live to do.

Eric Feng(Host):

He said that, ladies and gentlemen, that's Alan. And we really appreciate you being here with us today. Thank you so much.

Alan Phua(Guest):

Thanks for having me.

Eric Feng(Host):

Wish you success man, bye bye. Let's finish the chiffon cake together. 

Eric Feng(Host):

All right guys, so this is Alan. And I have to say that this is one of the most enjoyable episode cause I get to eat in an interview. Here's my biggest takeaway. My biggest takeaway is this that if you wanna attract powerful people to you, if you wanna attract successful wealthy people to you, you wanna attract resources, network, publicity to you. You have to have a big enough mission. And that mission is usually tied to a big enough problem that you wanna solve in this world and it would never be about you. And so if you wanna step up your game, you wanna play your A-game, you're an entrepreneur. Maybe you have even an employee, that's trying to catch the attention of a CEO. Stop thinking about your career promotion. Stop thinking about your own personal interests. Start thinking about companies interests, country interests, the world's interests. Because when you start thinking at that level, you're gonna attract powerful people to you because powerful successful people want to solve big problems because that's just the way they are made an engineered. That's my biggest takeaway from today. So I hope that you would go start reaching out, start thinking deeply into problems that you feel connected to solve and start communicating those things out and let's make the world a better place for you and I, and for our children, our children's children. If you love this episode, we publish this once every week on our highly sought after YouTube page. So all you need to do is just hit the subscribe button, switch on the bell notification and you'll get access to super duper inspiring personalities that will help you play at your best game. And I wish you success. And I'll see you at the next video.